UFC vs ESPN: Lorenzo Fertitta Attempts to Use Boxing to Argue Fighter Pay Case (Video)
There's been a lot said about UFC fighter pay thanks to an ESPN piece (seen above) on the subject, the argument being that UFC grossly underpays their fighters compared to the revenue the company brings in.
We've been over this countless times so I won't bore you with the details of it all, but the facts are the facts: Top boxers make a lot more than top UFC fighters. This has been part of the trouble whenever someone says that boxing needs a UFC-like structure; the way fighters are paid is so different that it could never, ever work. You aren't going to suddenly get Floyd Mayweather fighting for $2 million or whatever. Timothy Bradley made over $1 million for a nothing fight against Joel Casamayor on the Pacquiao vs Marquez undercard. I mean once you're at a certain level, it's apples and bowling balls.
UFC has released something of a response video from Lorenzo Fertitta, which was recorded during the ESPN interview, and the results aren't quite as compelling as they want them to be, I'm afraid.
Fertitta argues that ESPN, a massive corporation, pays fighters very little for their Friday Night Fights program:
I know what Fertitta is trying to do here, but unfortunately, the argument falls short on, well, just about every level.
First of all, ESPN is not a fight promoter. This is an enormous difference. For a UFC card on FX, the UFC is pretty much in control of everything. ESPN just airs fights. They have the right to turn down a proposed fight, but that's about it. Everything is really up to the promoters of the actual fight card.
They are a network that broadcasts a low-budget boxing series for nine months out of the year. To compare Friday Night Fights to a UFC show on cable is an attempt at trickery at best. It's just not the same thing.
The budget for FNF is small: $100,000 per show. This is not a big-time showcase for top fighters. It is, more or less, somewhere for prospects and mid-tier veterans to fight. At its best, like last season, Friday Night Fights turns into another version of ShoBox: The New Generation, which airs frequently on Showtime -- with a $50,000 budget per show, often used to great effect over three strong fights.
Fertitta claims, and I'm sure he's telling the truth, that someone fought on Friday Night Fights in a four-round bout for $275. What Fertitta doesn't reveal -- or perhaps does not actually know -- is that anyone in a four-round fight that winds up on the broadcast, on TV, was positioned in a swing fight that was going to air only if there was time remaining in the two-hour time slot. There are no four-round fights purposely scheduled to air on ESPN's series. A four-round fight is the lowest level of professional boxing, and frankly to call the majority of four-round bouts "professional boxing" is kind of a stretch; the fighters don't often resemble what we're used to seeing on TV, even from the middle-of-the-pack guys that get on ESPN or HBO or Showtime. It's kind of like comparing high school football to the NFL most of the time.
The UFC line is that everyone on their roster is there because they're among the best in the world. Obviously no one is being paid $275 to fight on a UFC card, but Friday Night Fights is not known to be, nor is it advertised as being, a showcase for the world's best boxers.
Fertitta's argument is lousy. There's no other way to put it. It's not a good comparison, it doesn't give them an out, and frankly I don't know why he even brought it up other than UFC guys like to bring up boxing as a comparison when they think it's good for their cause, and they say it's not on their radar when it isn't good for their cause. This time I think Fertitta misjudged his cause a little bit. It's such a bad argument that it wasn't even worth the time it took to lay it out.
And really, the two sports don't compare as business models. As Dave Meltzer of Yahoo! Sports notes, the way the sports operate is completely different. UFC is responsible for a lot more than most boxing promoters are, and the way they present their product is not the same:
UFC, as a business, is structured completely differently than the big four team sports, which pay closer to half of total revenue to the athletes. It’s also structured differently than boxing, where the major name fighters earn significantly more than UFC’s biggest draws. Georges St. Pierre recently said that he earns $4 million to $5 million per fight, but that figure likely includes sponsorship revenue. UFC has costs associated with producing and marketing shows, front-office expenses, and international expansion costs boxing organizations don’t have.
Additionally, the UFC’s draw is different than boxing. In boxing, most pay-per-view shows do fewer than 50,000 buys, but big draws like Manny Pacquiao can do significantly more than one-million buys, and at a higher price point than an UFC event. Floyd Mayweather vs. Victor Ortiz, for example, grossed $78 million just on pay-per-view revenue. Conversely, if UFC 141 was Zuffa’s biggest show of the year and did 800,000 buys that would be a gross of closer to $36 million, and Zuffa only gets a percentage in the range of half of that.
The usual UFC mouthpiece Dana White has largely abstained from the discussion, and refused to be interviewed by ESPN, but he's had his typical angry reaction on Twitter, and gone back to his old stance that anyone who ever says anything negative about the UFC has "an agenda." For the most part, White's "us against the world" mentality has helped UFC over the years, but just speaking from my own personal viewpoint, I think that's not going to be particularly helpful in the present or future. UFC wants to play with the big boys in sports now. That means attention from big boy sports media, and that inevitably leads to criticism and a realistic assessment of their product and their business. The rah-rah days are dying, and it's because of White's ambition as much as anything else. He's brought them here. Now they have to accept where they're at and what comes along with that standing.
Do I personally think UFC underpays fighters? I don't know. I don't have a perfect answer for that. I think Fertitta's argument comparing UFC to Friday Night Fights is horribly flawed at best, but I don't know if I can say that they're underpaid any more than I could say that many boxers are overpaid considering their lack of true value in drawing fan interest. Bradley make $1,000,000-plus for a tune-up fight against a shot veteran isn't a good thing, necessarily. It's good for Tim Bradley (and I have no problem with it so long as it doesn't interfere with making good fights), and on that card it was no big deal since Pacquiao and Marquez brought in a big gate and big PPV numbers and all that, so there was plenty of money to go around. I obviously believe it would be better if the UFC fighters made more money, but that's because I think the fighters deserve it. I don't know what it would mean for their business model, and I'll admit that I simply don't know that.
So to be clear, this is not meant to be anti-UFC, anti-MMA, anti-Dana White, anti-Lorenzo Fertitta, or pro-ESPN. The ESPN piece was pretty good, but I agree with Josh Nason of Bloody Elbow when he says it wasn't damning.
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I dont think he was bringing it up as an mma vs boxing thing, he was more saying your network is coming at us over pay and guys are making 275 bucks fighting on your network, thats what I think he was saying, not that oh we pay this and boxers make this cause we all know no UFC fighter or mma fighter is making anything close to Floyd/Manny.
But the next top boxers I’d say make about what the top mma fighters make, Brock, Reem, GSP, Silva all make millions per fight.
But I dont think this is a good comparison cause ESPN FNF is low level shit, its not high level top rank or GB HBO PPV card or reg HBO cards.
So I dont think he is making a good comparison but I dont think he is making it into a boxing pay vs mma pay, more that guys are making 300 bucks fighting on ESPN,
he was more saying your network is coming at us over pay and guys are making 275 bucks fighting on your network, thats what I think he was saying
Right, and the problem with that argument is that guys fighting on FNF are minor league club fighters, as you point out.
The UFC is major league MMA, akin to HBO or at least Showtime.
"While he may strike hard blows, he is not at liberty to strike foul ones." J. Sutherland.
I agree with your comments about Fertitta’s simplistic approach to ESPN FNF. Just as there are regional MMA organizations that will pay fighters peanuts, you will see the same in boxing circles. The money just isn’t there on the lower levels.
One thing I think is interesting about the MMA fighter pay discussion is that the debate surrounds absolute pay compared to other major sports. I think it’s unfair to compare fighter earnings with the four major team sports, which are complicated by revenue sharing, large television deals, unions, etc, etc. The UFC’s pay should probably be only compared to what the UFC brings in, and based on all the fuzzy math out there, as well as ESPN conveniently forgetting that cable providers take a large chunk of the pay per review revenue, there isn’t a whole lot of clarity on numbers.
My own personal view is that the UFC should have something similar to the Muhammad Ali act, to protect fighters’ rights and provide greater financial disclosure to fighters. This would go a long way towards fairer negotiations between fighter and organization. Under normal circumstances I would favor doing nothing, meaning let the market dictate what fighters are worth, but the UFC is essentially a monopoly right now and will continue to grow as one, which prevents fighters from truly figuring out their market clearing price. As a private corporation, a forced disclosure of financials may be problematic, but I assume there are non-disclosure terms that can be acceptable to all parties such that numbers don’t become public fodder.
In regards to unions, I just don’t think it works for this sport. In baseball or football, good luck playing the game without a catcher or a special teams unit. In those leagues, players that aren’t superstars have much more influence because the game is impossible to be played without them. A union that largely protects the rights of the middle class is one that the superstars are compelled to uphold for those team sports. In boxing or the UFC, the non-superstars are more or less non-essential, which means forming a union would be very difficult. Why would GSP or Anderson Silva help form a union knowing that their upside would be capped for the betterment of Pat Barry and Nam Phan?
As for boxing’s pay structure, I think the current promotional fiefdoms do a disservice to fans as well as fighters. Fans don’t get the fights they want, and fighters don’t get the exposure they deserve. Outside of Manny and Floyd, and maybe Cotto and the Klitschkos, fighters don’t really have much of a fan base. Timothy Bradley and Andre Berto are taking home nice paydays, but fans don’t care about them. No promoter has enough talent to do everything in-house, but the two largest guys constantly resort to in-house events, which gives us shit fights. I applaud the ambition of Showtime’s Super Six, but note that the UFC essentially gives fans the Super Six in every weight class.
by Competent Laurence Cole on Jan 15, 2012 10:21 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Basically this post X1000000. I couldn’t have written it any better.
by VirtualBalboa on Jan 15, 2012 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
Saved me the trouble of writing anything
Follow me @heynottheface where I occasionally tweet inane comments
competent is an understatement, this dude’s got k-1 level commenting.
'Would you kindly head to Ryan's office and kill the son of a bitch?'
-Atlas
by Victor Rodriguez on Jan 16, 2012 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
The problem with boxing is the gulf is just gigantic. As you pointed out Tim Bradley got a mil for a nothing fight. He basically got a 1 mi giveaway in aright nobody wanted or liked. Even pretty good fighters can only hope for a 10k payday on Shobox or FNF.
In boxing you are either riding really high making millions or making peanuts. That’s pretty much how it works. It’s become so extreme that I think it’s been very damaging to the sport. That’s why you see so many guys taking bullshit fights or no fights at all hoping to hit the jackpot against one of boxing’s very few superstars. There’s little incentive to actually take mid-level fights, the pay sucks relative to the top earners. That’s why none draws crowds anymore either. Nobody has a fan base, they are just waiting to get on TV and make the real money. We do not get nearly the same amount of high level fights that the UFC provides because of it.
I think the UFC’s current model will have to change at some point. Right now they have the monopoly so they can hold wages pretty low, but that will have to give sometime.
I’d go with the boxers are overpaid part rather than MMA fighters are underpaid.
by Shitali Klitschko on Jan 16, 2012 12:14 AM EST via mobile reply actions
The real question is: Why are the heads of the UFC so dang buff? They’re like the guys in high school who were nerdy and when they grew up they made a load of cash and started working out a lot.
Dana White went from skinny bald creepy looking guy to buff obnoxious bald guy in a ten year span. Guess money makes you lift….I mean do weird things.
WWE talent makes 13-15% of the total revenue, reportedly. Very close to MMA model.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jan 16, 2012 6:35 AM EST up reply actions
Do they get a lot more revenue than UFC? That’s kinda tough on the WWE guys, considering they’re working pretty much all year round across the States.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on Jan 16, 2012 6:58 AM EST up reply actions
They get a lot of the merchandising.
So it’s slighty more then MMA
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
I find it funny that he says he pays out ~50% of the company’s revenue. UFC 141 Lesnar/Overeem had 750,000 sales at 40$ (Low estimates) which is 30 million, plus MGM Grand likely sold out. I think the headlining show each guys made about 400,000 dollars (can’t remember if Overeem won a fight bonus, and undoubtedly they likely received a percentage of PPV coin). If I recall correctly, the other fights on the bill didn’t break 100,000, but even averaging each fight costing 60,000$ (huge stretch) and saying there were 10 fights on the card, that’s still only going to 2,000,000$ and then whatever percentage they paid out. So unless Overeem and Brock received like 15% of PPV sales each, and the MGM Grand live venue lost them money, UFC is paying TOPS 20% to their fighters. Also my PPV number excludes business-PPVs which cost 500-1000$.
I side with MMA fighters are underpaid. These are the most talented martial artists in the world, the sport garners huge attention and high risk for fighters. GSP and other high ranked fighters are better known than the bottom 80% of most other sports. Certainly, some guys make good money, but why should UFC be cashing out on all the money? These guys are already rich, they don’t have to worry about shareholders, etc. Obviously they aren’t in the business of giving money away, but being worth billions of dollars, you’d think they’d be at least a little more open to the idea of giving fighters more money. I think the first fight price on UFC is fair at 6-8,000$, just to see if you are at that level, but after that if you’re bringing any attention to the sport, you should be receiving a minimum of 100,000$ for a fight. It’s really chump change to the UFC to pay that out, and I think for the amount of effort these guys have put in, it’s a fair amount.
Of course, UFC has no reason to ever do this because no other MMA league can give you more money, and you’re losing on your sponsorships from shiny shirt companies. I believe UFC has a 150 fighter roster, and I definitely think the top 75 would make way less than the top 75 in Boxing. I’m ranting… UFC is cool but capitalizing on the fighters is a shame.
brock
was reported by espn last year to pull in atleast 4mill.
even your conservative numbers are way wrong. of the 30 million in ppv revenue the Ufc would be lucky to get half
with the other part going to cable companys.
I would love to see mma fighters make more cause its a sport I really enjoy.
He knows the guy with the bandage on his ass is going no were. Were you going fucking no were
by Elstriko on Jan 16, 2012 11:23 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I don’t think they are underpaid as a whole, elite fighters MMA fighters are underpaid.
Good lord… I went to that vid… in the comments, you could not find a bigger set of MMA fanboys jerking off to Fertitta totally obtuse to the idiotic points he was trying to sell.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."

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