Manny Pacquiao's Next Fight: Miguel Cotto Rematch Looking Like the Choice For June
by Scott Christ on Jan 20, 2012 9:53 PM EST
in Boxing News Analysis
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In news that will surprise no one and is pretty much what I've expected to hear for weeks, Salvador Rodriguez reports that we're likely going to see Manny Pacquiao and Miguel Cotto in a rematch on June 9.
Pacquiao (54-3-2, 38 KO) and Cotto (37-2, 30 KO) are going to rematch for a simple, obvious reason, before anyone asks: Money. Both have legitimate fanbases who don't consider this to be a mismatch, or if they do, don't care if it is one.
So that's why. Before you wonder if someone else probably deserved the fight instead, yes, someone else probably did, and we're not taking Mayweather into consideration here. Tim Bradley has earned the fight as much as anybody earns anything in boxing. A fourth fight with Juan Manuel Marquez likely would have been preferred by some. But it's going to be Cotto -- the report from Rodriguez isn't guaranteeing the fight or anything, but this has been the hard rumor for weeks now. I really have no doubt this is the fight that's coming to us.
As I've said before, I'm in favor of the bout. I'm interested to see what a rejuvenated Miguel Cotto, working with a real trainer, can do against a declining Pacquiao. It's a fine and fair argument that no matter what Cotto does, Pacquiao will always be a nightmare matchup for him, and that may in fact be the case.
But I don't believe the Pacquiao we have here in 2012, no matter how well-prepared he is or which Alex Ariza training book he's working from this time, is near the November 2009 Pacquiao. In my view, Pacquiao peaked for good in '09 with his wins over Ricky Hatton and Cotto. He was ferocious in those fights -- fast, strong, in incredible physical shape, and boxing like a man possessed.
That's not who he is now. Pacquiao is 33 years old. This was going to happen soon, and he's been in tough, high-level fights for 14 years now, and has been a pro for 17 years. He's been through the wars with a lot of top guys. His recent dominance has prolonged his career to some degree, as has his improvements over the years (as has selective matchmaking recently), but when you watch his two fights in 2011, I don't think there's any argument that physically, he is regressing.
Cotto's 31 and while this will kind of be an argument against my belief that this fight is fine, really has never been the same since the Margarito beating of 2008 and will never be his true prime self, either. But I think Cotto relied a bit less on physical gifts. While Pacquiao was in many ways not a natural boxer, and had to learn grace and poise in the ring, he is a fantastic athlete. He's very strong, very quick on his feet and with his hands. Miguel Cotto, to me, was always no more than a B+ in any category other than toughness and, for a while there, the ability to intimidate opponents. He lost some in both cases after the Margarito fight, and whether that fight was fair or not, whether Margarito cheated or not, the point is it happened, and you can't change that any more than you can unring a bell.
If we're really honest about Cotto's 3-0 record since the loss to Pacquiao, here's what you've got:
- Yuri Foreman, a guy who was no more an elite-level boxer than he is a Catholic. Foreman seems like a nice, gentle human being who doesn't like violence or fighting. Even without the knee injury, he was going to lose to Cotto. He just wasn't good enough.
- Ricardo Mayorga, a washed-up guy who hasn't beaten anyone good in years and years. Mayorga is still great entertainment before a fight, and in a fight before he starts getting hit too many times.
- Antonio Margarito, who effectively has one eye and hasn't done anything in over three years except lose that eye.
I definitely would prefer to see the Bradley fight, but I understand why that's not happening. I don't have any compelling reasons why Pacquiao vs Cotto II is a good fight, and will understand the backlash. But I have some belief this is going to be a good fight.
The next move is Floyd Mayweather announcing a May 5 fight -- and I'm not sure they really have anything lined up. For the time being, Canelo Alvarez appears the leading candidate.
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‘But I don’t believe the Pacquiao we have here in 2012, no matter how well-prepared he is or which Alex Ariza training book he’s working from this time, is near the November 2009 Pacquiao’
Sorry I don’t know how to quote properly, but this pretty much sums up why I have no real urgent desire to see Mayweather v Pacquiao in 2012 compared to the 12 months following his wins over Hatton and Cotto.
Personally I would rather see a free agent Cotto v Mayweather. But whatever, I would just about accept Cotto v Manny II, but accept at Boxnation prices not TR $50 PPV in the US.
Nobody will read this and care and why should they?
I was kinda hoping Cotto vs. Mayweather would’ve been the case. I was actually excited at the prospect of Canelo vs. Cotto as well. Like Scott says, I kind of find the fight compelling for the reasons he stated above, but would’ve rather seen these other two fights. As for Manny, I would’ve liked to see him take someone new. But, well, whatever. If SOPA/PIPA allow me, I’ll find a tucker.
"He's still a very strong fighter, but I am way better than he is" - Miguel Cotto
Arum
I will boycott TR fighters for the rest of my days if you make yet another in-house cash grab with a fighter that doesn’t deserve the fight. I like Cotto just fine, but Margarito doesn’t justify another shot at Manny.
I will boycott TR fighters for the rest of my days
If I had a nickel for every time a boxing fan threatened a boycott of Top Rank fighters due to Pacquiao matchmaking…
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jan 20, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
I personally will boycott this fight
Will you give me a nickel when I don’t watch it. As for boycotting top rank, lets not go crazy…..
by journeyintosound on Jan 20, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
You'd have a lot of nickels
However, I’ll keep my word with this caveat. Top Rank vs. Top Rank boycott only.
by younggunzvt on Jan 20, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
So you would boycott, say, Nonito Donaire vs. Juan Manuel Lopez?
@KoryKitchen32 on twitter
by Kory Kitchen on Jan 20, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
Or Brandon Rios vs Yuri Gamboa?
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jan 20, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
If they were on PPVs headlined by other TR fighters
absolutely, yes. I don’t like Rios, but I would watch Donaire fight his way through a cardboard box. I think my boycott could only apply to PPV fights as it relates to money out of my pocket. It’s far too tempting to watch HBO/Showtime and catch a fight from home (technically I am paying, but its not fight specific).
It's funny to remember
when the Puerto Rican fans weren’t sure about Cotto. Body shots and destructive power….. Few fans. Oh, how times have changed.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
I think it will make a decent fight because of their styles, but I think we end up with the same result. Is there any chance that they fight above 147? If so that would give Cotto a better chance
by RRod806 on Jan 20, 2012 11:11 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
No chance.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jan 21, 2012 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
Ho-Hum
Oh, great — we get a fight absolutely NOBODY’s clamoring for, not even the most die-hard Cotto fan. It’s not like the first fight was even that competitive after a certain point. And, really, Pacquiao hasn’t regressed THAT far — though, really, how high will his motivation level be to fight a guy he’s already knocked out convincingly? That’s probably Cotto’s best chance. Manny wins easy again — and then where does Miguel’s career go after a 2nd KO at Pacman’s hands? BAD matchmaking, especially for Cotto.
I know this is a pipe dream, but El Nuevo Dia is saying basically the same thing (that it’s going to be Cotto/Pac 2) BUT they also reported that Cotto’s legal adviser had a meeting with Golden Boy this week regarding Cotto/Mayweather…
"He's still a very strong fighter, but I am way better than he is" - Miguel Cotto
People are calling this bad matchmaking for Cotto, but let’s not forget that Cotto likely wants his biggest money fight which is Pacquiao. Also, Arum is not putting a gun to Cotto’s head. Cotto is free to go to Golden Boy if he wants to. He’s a grown man, and he doesn’t HAVE to do this. If he does, it’s of his own volition in my view.
@KoryKitchen32 on twitter
Cotto wants money. He said very clearly he also wanted this fight and thinks he can win. Cotto has no obligation to fight Manny Pacquiao. He wants to.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jan 21, 2012 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
Sometimes boxing fans have this weird complex where they want fighters to be great and then shit on them for daring to try. I didn’t want to see Mayweather vs Robert Guerrero at all, but I respect Guerrero for trying to get it. He wanted the money, yes, but he also wanted the opportunity.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jan 21, 2012 4:20 AM EST up reply actions
TR was never going to wait for Floyd; not unless he came forward himself or sent his henchmen for him to make the fight. He didn’t. In fact, his demand for he lion’s share of a potential Pacquiao fight shows that he was never serious about May.
Not everyone will be pleased with this or any fight but now, with Cotto all but locked up, I am very interested to see who Floyd can find to fight.
Time’s a wasting.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Abso-fricking -lutely
Cotto wants high profile ‘big name’ money fights. Period.
That is what he expects from his promotional company.
And that is what he appears to be getting.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I'll allow it
The first fight was actually kind of underrated in terms of competitiveness. I’m with Scott: I think the potential decline of Pacquiao and somewhat revival of Cotto make it interesting enough. I’ll definitely watch.
BTW, I’m not convinced that Pacquiao has really slipped that much. Post-Cotto, he fought Clottey (who did nothing and made it impossible to look good), moved on to Mosley (who also did nothing and made it impossible to look good), then absolutely slaughtered Margarito (not a surprise given how slow Margarito is, but still a stunning destruction when you watch it), and then Marquez (who has always been his kryptonite, robbing him of his aggressiveness).
I’m just not convinced (yet) that I’ve seen real signs of slippage. The only thing that would worry me if I were Freddie Roach/Bob Arum is that I also am not convinced (yet) that his amazing power has translated at the upper reaches of his climb in weight recently. Never got to Clottey, had one knockdown of a 39-year old Mosley on one good punch, never got to Margarito (though he does have an iron chin), and never even hurt Marquez.
Anyway, I’d be in for a Cotto fight if only to see if there really is slippage against a guy whose style is a good match for him and who we’ve already seen him fight once. The apples-to-apples comparison of ’09 Pacquiao vs. ’12 Pacquiao alone is enough for me.
Against Cotto...
…Manny will look like Superman again (which is probably why Arum’s pushing this fight) — a guy just about his size who will be right there to hit, again and again. What exactly will his new trainer tell him to do style-wise that will make a difference? This isn’t a one-eyed, plaster-less Margarito he’ll be in against, or a one-legged, feather-fisted Foreman. So if it’s really money that Miguel’s after, then I guess he can cash his check from this one and just become an opponent. This won’t embellish his rep like a win against Canelo or Chavez, or a good showing against Floyd. And I didn’t think he looked like a guy who ever thought he could beat Pacquiao at the end of their first fight.
He wouldn’t have a good showing against Floyd. Mayweather would completely dominate Cotto and make him look terrible.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jan 21, 2012 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
I’m probably in the minority here but I don’t think Mayweather would dominate Cotto.
@KoryKitchen32 on twitter
by Kory Kitchen on Jan 21, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
This fight is garbage
Total waste of time. Manny has jumped the shark. He had a nice run there for a while but it’s impossible to take him seriously as a fighter anymore. Not interested in this at all.
No complaints at all here, liked the first one and like the look of it again.
Who cares about Tim Bradley anyway, what a waste of everyones time that would be.
by Shitali Klitschko on Jan 21, 2012 1:50 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I'm just happy everyone knows what this is.
Top Duck is back at it again. (if this fight gets made)
Has another boxer ever been this well protected by a promoter?
When this fight between two high profile A fighters outsells Floyd’s unannounced fight, Floyd’s negotiating position (designed to not make the fight this May) will get even weaker.
In a game of business chess, Floyd is being checked, mate
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Do you mean young guys like Marquez and Mosely
Oh, and Baldomir. You know them. The three youngsters that Floyd has fought these past five years.
Floyd fought Sharmba Mitchell at 35 year old.
Zab Judah right at the cusp of turning 30.
Baldomir ….34
Oscar…….. 32
Hatton……..29
JMM………..37
Manny fought Marquez twice in their absolute prime.
He fought Cotto with one loss…before when he was 29.
He is now 31.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Dude you forgot Ortiz who is younger than me, who Floyd just beat. That fight was a slap to the face to Manny and TR, and you guys are still matching Manny with older guys and now guys he already beat?!!! C’mon this is bullshit and u know it.
You make a comment about one guy fighting men over 30 and when I state facts that show that Floyd has virtually only fought 30 plus year olds, you not only change the subject but ypou try hiding behind Scott and/or someone else.
BTW, Clottey were two of the best welterweights of the past five years and two of the many that Floyd passed on fighting.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Nope
I asked can Manny fight anyone under 30 or someone he hasn’t fought yet. And u answered one part of that question by comparing Floyd’s other fighters. And Floyd did fight a younger fighter, and he never back tracked like you guys are doing now.
You forgot Clottey, Margarito both were 30+, but i’m not going to back further than that, this argument is for what has been happening lately.
I agree with Scott, the last time we seen a good competitive match up for Manny was Cotto back in 2009.
And believe me, if you guys knew that Marquez was going to give that good of a performance against Manny in their third fight, you would have made him wait a few more years before he saw Manny.
They absolutely knew it was going to be a good match and it was.
And it sold like crazy.
And there was planty of reason to have him fight Marquez given their first two fights. Floyd had no reason to fight him other than to take on a smaller man at a catch weight that he never even honored
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Has another boxer ever been this well protected by a promoter?
I guess not, since Floyd doesn’t technically have a promoter.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jan 21, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
This will be a good fight
Not the one everyone wants, but good nonetheless
While I give Cotto a decent chance at winning the fight (just based on the fact that he looked good against Margarito, and Pacquiao has looked bad against his last two opponents), it’s the worst fight out of all of Pacquiao’s options imo. Pacquiao vs. Bradley is what should have happened, but I would have even been happier seeing Pacquiao vs. Peterson.
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