HBO To Debut New Technology On Chavez Jr vs Rubio Undercard
by Waldo Rastel on Jan 30, 2012 9:59 PM EST
in Boxing News Analysis
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PrintSome people may be excited to see Nonito Donaire back in the ring against a willing opponent. Some people may be excited about seeing how Julio Cesar Chavez Jr handles himself against a tough veteran Marco Antonio Rubio. I'm curious to see all of these things, but it is not what has grabbed my attention in the week before this big fight card. In fact it is something very small, but with the potential to drastically improve the post-fight analysis done by people like us.
According to Ronnie Nathanielsz of Boxing Scene, HBO is seeking permission from the WBC to use a 1" x 1" sensor in the wrist of the boxing glove. Theoretically, this device would be able to measure the speed and force of the punches thrown in real time. The device has already been tested at 60 professional fights and countless amateur fights. I would assume that this would be the first time that this device has been used on a televised card. To borrow from the software vernacular, this would essentially be beta testing for the device before the designers choose to go gold.
The amount of data that would be available after this device becomes fully adopted will be staggering. We could figure out what a fighter's average punch speed is for each type of punch that he throws. We would be able to tell if a fighter is slowing down by looking as his average punch speed over his past couple of fights. If a boxer got knocked out by a punch, we could figure out the amount of force necessary to knock that boxer out, and which fighters in the division are capable of producing that kind of power. There would be no more arguments about who is the biggest puncher in a given division, because we would have the measurements. Same thing goes for the fastest hands in a given division. Also it would be easy to figure out if a boxer is carrying his power with him as he goes up or down in weight.
Essentially, this device would allow for a more statistical measurement of boxing, something that is severely lacking in the sport of boxing. Hopefully, this system can also improve the accuracy of Compubox punch statistics. Do you guys see any more potential uses for this new technology?
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i don’t have any other ideas for how that device can be used but that one paragraph right after the jump was insane. “the amount of force necessary to knock that boxer out and which fighters in that division are capable of that force” = mind blown
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by battle axe of doom on Jan 30, 2012 10:13 PM EST reply actions
That part caught my eye too. It will be interesting to see how “consistent” someone’s chin is for each fight.
That said, more factors would go into the knockout equation I would think, Things like did the guy see the punch coming or not? I would think it would require less force to knock someone out that does not see the blow coming.
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by Kory Kitchen on Jan 30, 2012 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
Chin also immediately came to my mind.
It wouldn’t solve every debate in boxing but I think trends could be developed. It could have huge implications just like how pitch tracking, swings, stances, and video is used in baseball now. If commissions weren’t so archaic it seems that this type of technology could be used in almost every pro fight, I doubt it’s obscenely expensive at this point in time.
by BangBangLampley on Jan 30, 2012 10:38 PM EST reply actions
I can’t wait to be annoyed when people unable score fights themselves start citing this as much as CompuBox to argue that their favorite was the the obvious winner.
Yeah, that’s one of my personal worries too. I dunno, I’m all for most technology, but Jesus. How many steps toward Real Steel do we need to take?
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by Scott Christ on Jan 30, 2012 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
I love it. It really is Compubox not Guyhittingabuttonbox like we haven now.
by BangBangLampley on Jan 30, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
What happens with a fighter who paws with a jab? When do you take data to say record average punch speed? Throw out everything below a certain value? Can they link data to certain punches accurately?
I'd assume they'd have a cutoff value
Too slow and it doesn’t register.
by Patrick L. Stumberg on Jan 30, 2012 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
Just match this data with the compubox data to differentiate between a jab and a power punch. Also differentiating between a pawing jab and a stiff jab should be pretty easy considering the drastic differences in speed and power.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Jan 30, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
I think you'd use it just like they use certain advanced baseball stats these days
In tandem with the eye test to form a more complete picture of the events that go on.
by ozymandius1024 on Jan 31, 2012 8:04 AM EST up reply actions
I think this has amazing potential. When you think about it, boxing is really in the ice age when it comes to technology in the ring. Compubox has been around for 20+ years and it’s still just a dude jamming buttons repeatedly.
You could not only get a sense of average/max punch speeds and power and a good estimate of a fighter’s chin, but I’d imagine we’re not far off from better locational data too. A few sensors on each fighter’s body would give us all the info we needed to precisely map every punch in terms of its impact (and not just those primitive Compubox punch zones). Then you could really figure out where “the button” actually is, for example.
but
What if I only care about the velocity of landed punches?
Maybe it’d be cool, but I can picture it being annoying. A 96mph fastball is tough, but 92 with a little movement is much nastier. Similar idea here, me thinks.
by Sentimental on Jan 30, 2012 11:41 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
I don’t think it’s meant to replace your eyes. It’s meant to supplement them. 50 years ago you never knew how fast a fastball was thrown. Now you do, and because you do, you know enough to know that 96mph is great but 92 with a little movement is much nastier. So maybe it’s the combination of ultimate speed and movement that makes for a great pitch.
Just as in boxing, where it could turn out that absolute power isn’t really that big a deal on its own. Maybe its the combination of power and location. Or maybe some particular, infinitesimally small locations don’t even require much power to put someone on their ass. Don’t you want to know that stuff?
but
what if i only care about the velocity of landed punches?
and while i see the appeal of mph, i’m not super interested in what the juiced-up-propoganda-guns nowadays read. if you watch enough and learn to watch how a hitter is reacting, you get a lot more than “96” or “92.” (admittedly, i’m anxious to find high-end mph when trying to figure out whether some minor leaguer projects as shingo takatsu or joel zumaya).
i’m not saying i would not be interested in the things you mention. some of the stuff we know, and for more specific things, it doesn’t seem that the technology is available. when i say i’d find this technology “annoying”, i refer to having lampley yell at me some kind of velocity or impact number that doesn’t tell me whether the darn punch landed.
by Sentimental on Jan 31, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
I wonder if boxers themselves would like the idea? I don’t think it would give a lot of useful data on how to knock someone out exactly, because often its not always about the punch, its what the fighter did to set that punch up. But I’d still be interested in seeing this technology used.
A firestorm to purify.
Sounds like a great idea. Would also be a useful training tool to have to measure if you’re increasing your hand speed or punching power in camp. Any idea on the price of one, and if there’s computer software to go with it? I think most trainers would jump at the chance of buying them.
Yeah I have no idea but I would assume that it would be fairly inexpensive since the tech is probably based on accelerometers/gyroscopes. These accelerometers are in most smart phones right now, so i would assume that economies of scale have made them fairly cheap.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Jan 31, 2012 5:27 AM EST up reply actions
Put technology to better use
I agree this is pretty cool, but if they have the technology to do this then why do we not yet the capability to review knockdowns and fouls? Seems like using technology to help referees and judges is more important than helping HBO compile more accurate punch stats.
But this isn’t a tech problem, its a political problem. The tech solutions exist, they are simply not adopted.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Jan 31, 2012 5:28 AM EST up reply actions
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