How do you see the global boxing landscape?
In my opinion, one conclusion stands out from the rest; namely; that the entire global boxing landscape has become just that—a global boxing landscape where a Ghanaian can live in Stockholm and fight in Europe, or a Venezuelan can live in Tokyo and fight everywhere but in the U.S. An Armenian can become a German or Australian citizen and live in France and thereby get a triple dose of adulation. Vic Darchinyan is given triple homeboy love in Glendale, CA; Australia; and in Armenia. The late Edwin Valero was worshiped in Tokyo and Venezuela—and then, for his macho style, in Mexico. An Armenian born Russian citizen can live in France and fight throughout Europe. A Cuban can defect to South America, move to Europe and fight out of Germany or Ireland. Born in Uzbekistan and Russian by nationality, a fighter can live and fight out of Munich these days, and in the process, he just might become tri-lingual. How about a Tunisian who resides in Germany but fights in Australia?
Heck, a fighter can be born in Belarus, immigrate to Israel, learn to box in Haifa under a Russian coach, train out of an Arab gym, and then move to Brooklyn, New York where he studies to become a rabbi while at the same time becoming a WBA Super Welterweight Champion.
That’s why I call it Planet Boxing.
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Very promising
I see the global nature of the game being its lifeblood with young men from diverse and disparate backgrounds still using the game as a means of social mobility.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Good points
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
Love this post.
Tightly written, with great examples, this short post is an excellent summary of how identity and nationalism, while still central to the sport, have become more pliant. Part of the reason for this is marketing, and some of this has gone on forever—how many “Irish” fighters battled under similarly slippery shifts of identity and fandom?
Part of the cause of this, however, is something new and important to our epoch. People really do move more easily between forms of identity. It’s not all about the money. Cultural definitions have been effectively dislodged from their geographical locations.
We’ve long been used to the idea that “Americanness” is a transnational form of cultural identity, and the Americanization of Europe, to cite just one example, has been going on since the Roaring Twenties. But now there are many different national identities with major outposts in formerly strange locales. Global urban populations are more heterogeneous, as are our psyches. Being authentic doesn’t have to mean being just one thing anymore.
We see these changes reflected in our sports icons. Nationality is still massively important to the marketing and make-up of boxers, but our sense of nationality is now mobile, wireless.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
Great post. The Boxing world no longer begins and ends in America.
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
We have made the leap in Tennis
Embraced the players from overseas in the NBA. And celebrate a small Asian champion in boxing.
We’ve come a long way baby.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Another point
Men like Floyd (for the better part of his career, literally) and Andre Ward are competing for American audience with talent in global sport both within and outside of the States themselves.
In previous decades, a top American boxer, regardless of color, would have been among the most celebrated of athletes. Today, they must compete for audience without any guarantees of constituency.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Exactly.
And this is really what underlies the American notion of “the death of boxing”—the death of “American” identity as a marketing value. Seldom do boxers make a point about being American. They might identify with a subset of America—whether ethnic, religious, or geographically based—but you seldom see guys selling themselves as Americans first and foremost the way you used to. American boxers can no longer expect the built in support they could previously count on. This is especially true of American media support.
When bad ESPN writers try to tell us boxing is dead, what they are really saying is that they no longer understand boxing audiences.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
Line of the Year candidate
When bad ESPN writers try to tell us boxing is dead, what they are really saying is that they no longer understand boxing audiences.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
You saw what happened to Apollo Creed
Boxers are scared that if they bring in the American identity, they might be killed.
But really, I think perhaps there was a political culture in defining what an American is. 1950s, 60s, 70s, along with Cold War politics/war, you have a rising Black culture, and a changing identity of what it is to be American. Now, if you’re born here, you’re American, and there’s not much point arguing about it. I think the fear of one day not being American was shaking the structure of the world, and people exercised national pride as a way of showing this.
So, bring on a Russian or Cuban invasion like in the movie Red Dawn… WOLVERINES!!!!
A firestorm to purify.
The Klitschkos, who enjoy Jordan-like fame in much of northern Europe, fill stadiums and arenas every time they fight in Germany. In the US, however, the fact that they crush all of their opponents and every boxing stereotype just elicits a yawn. It is hard to figure. After all, we have always had a fascination with the big guys. It is as though we hold their intelligence, education, and measured aggression against them."—Gordon Marino
"I think they are extremely talented six-foot-six, six-foot-seven guys but this is the new generation. I myself never thought that much of a boxer over six-five because I know that was like a boundary and when you get to six-five that was like the end of your coordination for boxing, which was like Lewis and Bowe. The Klitschkos are the exception in that fact… they are the new generation of big heavyweights who have coordination."—Emanuel Steward
"Armenia’s current crop of fighters is responsible for this nation’s first noticeable impact on the sport of boxing and, in the coming years, just might continue to establish a memorable history for sports fans…. For Armenian boxing, the present is already far brighter than the past. The future could be even brighter."—Derek Bonnett
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
I think the Klitschko's are more like Andre Ward
They always win but they do not excite. Same with Hopkins.
The love or lack thereof IMO has to do with their cautious offense. We were accustomed to talented and mobile big men who entertained and closed in an entertaining fashion.
The brothers are terrific but they are about as entertaining as….fill in the blanks.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Ward imho is more entertaining than either K brother, especially Wlad.
He throws a lot more, engages more frequently, and is not afraid to mix it up inside if needed. While Ward is certainly no Brandon Rios, he is more fun to watch than these two.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I agree.
I find Ward quite entertaining to watch.
I see him as similar to a bigger version of Mayweather in that he is that much better than the rest, yet he can turn on the offensive when it is called for.
Granted, Mayweather is more defensive buti think they both have a somewhat conservative (yet entertaining) style.
I like watching alll of them. The Klits and Hopkins too, although Hopkins can test the patience at times.
They are masters at what they do and are somtimes not appreciated enough partly because some fans aren’t aware of the technical side of things and therefore don’t appreciate, imo.
It’s called “boxing” after all, not “fighting”.
"Leon Spinks is so ugly that when a tear rolls down his face, it only gets halfway, then it rolls back up" - Muhammad Ali.
And there are not enough true craftsmen boxers around today.
Exibit A – A supposedly near to top level fighter like Amir Khan’s ridiculously amateur looking way of fighting Lamont Peterson when he seemed clueless about how to handle Peterson’s pressure (although Freddie Roach is partly responsible for working that out).
I know Khan is still young but even so, he’s supposedly with the best teacher in the world and has an Olympic silver medal. Maybe it was just an off night.
BTW, reigning Olympic Super-Heavyweight Champion and former multi time World Champ, Roberto Cammarelle was recently asked in an interview why, at age 31, he had never thought of turning pro.
He answered in part by describing pro boxing as “a spasmodic search for a knockout at the expense of technique”.
I’m not saying i totally agree with that but i certainly see his point. Many fighters nowadays (apart from guys like Floyd, Ward, etc) don’t really have the knowledge and craft of the best fighters of yesteryear, IMO.
"Leon Spinks is so ugly that when a tear rolls down his face, it only gets halfway, then it rolls back up" - Muhammad Ali.
Funny to hear that from Cammarelle, when amateur boxing so often devolves into two fighters windmilling right in front of each other. Better a spasmodic search for a knockout than a spasmodic search for points.
You’re totally wrong there. that’s not the case at all and you must not have watched many of the top international tournaments.
The main thing the amateurs can be criticised for is clean shots not registering with the judges.
To say that amateur boxing is devoid of technique just shows your lack of knowledge on the subject.
The amateurs is where you learn true technique.
That’s why many, many of the top pros of all time had great amateur careers, and also why some fighters today who didn’t have much of an amateur career are the ones who flail and “windmill”.
"Leon Spinks is so ugly that when a tear rolls down his face, it only gets halfway, then it rolls back up" - Muhammad Ali.
by Matt Mosley on Feb 13, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
I think you must be referring to your local amateur scene.
Amateur boxing at Olympic and World class level is of a very high skill level. That’s why Gillermo Rigondeaux is a world title belt holder after only 9 fights.
I mean, come on. This is novice stuff and what you say is laughable.
How long have you actually followed boxing?
Watch this and then tell me more about “windmilling”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lQ4EugHKUo
"Leon Spinks is so ugly that when a tear rolls down his face, it only gets halfway, then it rolls back up" - Muhammad Ali.
by Matt Mosley on Feb 13, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Amateur boxing
is the base from which a pro career should be build.
Obviously the best pros are better than the best amateurs. They are full time sportsmen for one thing, whereas amateurs usually work as well as fight.
The point is that some fighters just jump straight into the pros with little or no amateur background, and i think that shows more in todays game than in years gone by.
"Leon Spinks is so ugly that when a tear rolls down his face, it only gets halfway, then it rolls back up" - Muhammad Ali.
by Matt Mosley on Feb 13, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
built
"Leon Spinks is so ugly that when a tear rolls down his face, it only gets halfway, then it rolls back up" - Muhammad Ali.
by Matt Mosley on Feb 13, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve watched plenty of amateur boxing. I’m not saying that Rigondeaux and Lomachenko aren’t excellent technical fighters. They are (and so is/was Cammarelle). They are also guys at the absolute top of the heap.
What I’m saying is that there is bad technique on display in plenty of amateur fights (even at the world and Olympic levels), and a big part of that is driven by the ruleset. Amateur fights are sprints for points. Throwing tons of volume when you get in range is common— it’s a good way to grab points. That’s not to say it doesn’t happen in the pros, but it has fewer rewards there. So for Cammarelle to treat the current amateur game as a bastion of scientific boxing just rang a little hollow to me, that’s all.
Well, i did say i don’t totally agree with what Cammarelle said, but i do partly see where he is coming from.
i mean, after all, amateur is amateru, so you tend to expect the highest level from the pros.
I know there are poor examples of technique in both codes but i don’t necessarily agree about the points scoring thing, although i see where you are coming from.
The knuckle part of the glove has to land on the face to register though, so that obviously encourages accuracy, which is usually enhanced by technique.
"Leon Spinks is so ugly that when a tear rolls down his face, it only gets halfway, then it rolls back up" - Muhammad Ali.
I agree with most of this,
but sometimes a fighter really can underwhelm, even while winning and even for people who appreciate craft and defense. I would argue that Wlad, for example, has been in many, many fights where he could have easily turned it on faster and more aggressively without any additional risk—yet refused, even while Manny hectored him about it in his corner. I do admit I find this less than entertaining.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
+1...and one more for good measure
Heavyweights are meant to knock people the fuck out.
Manny Steward has done a historic job is making Vlad and Lewis the two biggest rehab projects in Boxing but he knows boxing fans want KOs from their big men. And God bless him.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Matt
Ward imho is more entertaining than either K brother, especially Wlad.
He throws a lot more, engages more frequently, and is not afraid to mix it up inside if needed.
I don’t disagree
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Depends on how you define "excite." Systamic slaughter can be quite exciting.
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
ha--that be me
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
For any number of reasons (not the least of which are technological advancements such as the internet), the world has become much smaller. Boxing has followed suit and the commonality of what happens in boxing rings throughout the world has become stark.
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
Not everyone will agree with this but I satnd by it.
An obvious trend in the US among elite—or wannabe elite—boxers is what I call the "Mayweather Business Model" whereby a boxer breaks out of the gate fast, runs up an impressive won-lost record, and then slows things down and picks his spots with more financial circumspection and with a keen eye toward cashing in on a big payday. In Mexico, Saul "Canelo" Alvarez and Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. may well be at this point. At one time, it appeared that Danny Jacobs was another but he was sidelined by someone named Pirog and then by illness. The bottom line—and I see it as an unfortunate one—is that a fighter is now far more pressured by the number of losses he suffers. The days of Gatti, Ward, Salido, Margarito, and others who had fair share of defeats under their belt may be a thing of the past. So far, this has not seemed to have happened in Canada and the UK, and I hope it stays that way.
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
Fair point with more that a modicum of truth
The promoters protect the records. The networks reward them. And the top name fighters who more or less independently promote themselves follow suit.
No one is to be absolved. Nothing short of a franchise like the UFC where the Muhamed Ali Act is not in play can even begin to impose rules and enforce matches in the current boxing arena.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Boxing is very sleazy.All aspect of it. I alaways start with that premise.
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
The advent of the brothers encouraged many others from the former Soviet Union to cash in on their great amateur training and skills. Men like Armenian Arthur Abraham and Khoren Gevor have become German citizens. Even defectors from Cuba are making Germany their new port of call. Defector Odlanier Solis signed a professional promotional contract with German-based Arena Box-Promotions as did other Cuban amateur stars. Cuban heavyweight Juan Carlos Gomez now resides in Hamburg.
As for style, Eastern European boxers no longer fight in the manner of stand-up fighters of the past. They are well-trained, well-schooled fighters who now can adapt to different styles far more readily. Like Marvelous Marvin Hagler, the Eastern Europeans also demonstrate a solid old-school work ethic both in and out of the ring: No obnoxious behavior or over-the-top trash talking that only cheapens the sport.
These days, Michael Buffer is just as likely to exclaim "Let’s Get Ready to Rumble" from the SAP-Arena in Mannheim or the Sporthalle in Hamburg as he is from Madison Square Garden.
Lower weight
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
Lower weight Latino/Asian fighters excite me more personally but I agree with you otherwise.
The Europeans are all more often all business with less trash talking. On the other hand, I love watching arrogant pricks like AA get his ass handed to him.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Latinos
Mexico and Puerto Rico have always been considered elite locales in boxing and that continues to be the case. While Mexican and Mexican-American boxers have had better years than in 2009 and early 2010, they had an incredibly solid 2011 reinforcing their elite global stature. Will we ever again see rugged Tepiteños, or as in more recent years, warriors like Chavez, Barrera, Morales, Vazquez, and either Marquez dominating their divisions? I’m betting we will.
The lineage of great boxers from Puerto Rico is a rich, dramatic, and often tragic one, as many of the fighters met with difficulties both outside the ring or after they finished their careers. In this regard, Puerto Rico continues to produce a remarkable tapestry of sports in general and boxing in particular. In fact, nowhere will you find more world champions per capita.
For gaudy records, great nicknames, legendary fights and especially for high drama, I have always had a great fondness for South American fighters, and most particularly those from Argentina. That tradition is alive and well today as World Middleweight Champion Sergio Martinez leads an influx of dangerous fighters from that great country.
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
“most particularly those from Argentina” – did you see the Luis Lazarte fight from that great country . It appears that in Argentina , it rains chairs . Jesus.
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/12022012/58/argentine-boxing-match-ends-riot.html
Disarm you with a smile ....
by Sir Jack Daniels on Feb 12, 2012 6:15 AM EST reply actions
Holy shit
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
That link should have gone to the video which is un-fooking real . From a news page -
“Lazarte, who committed a string of fouls including kicking his opponent, was heard by reporters to shout at the referee “do you want to get out of here alive?” after being docked his first point in the sixth round of a bout he was losing".
Disarm you with a smile ....
by Sir Jack Daniels on Feb 12, 2012 10:22 AM EST reply actions
No worries
The WBC can get him a license to fight in Texas. And a belt
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
SPORTSMAN OF THE YEAR?
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
maybe in your country. . hehehe.
Disarm you with a smile ....
by Sir Jack Daniels on Feb 14, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Asia
I’m also betting that the current resurgence in Japanese and Pinoy boxing will not run its course for years to come. Of course, multiple champion Many Pacquiao has been to Filipino boxing what the Klitschkos have been to Eastern Europe and Germany. As for Thailand, it continues to be a hotbed of all different kinds of boxing and this will not change any time soon.
Interestingly, Thai and Filipino fighters are not adverse to running up big records and fighting for a relatively long time. On the other hand, Japanese and South Korean boxers rarely fight more than 30 to 35 times and many often will retire after a second or third loss. In this regard, the active records of such fighters as Tsuneo "Piston" Horiguchi (143-26-15), Yoichiro Hanada (93-37-28), Motomitsu Soda (68-22-30), Hiroshi Horiguchi (80-11-5), Masashi Akiyama (73-28-8), and Takeshi Sasazaki (73-27-11) were likely an anomaly of the war and post-war times. Later, greats like Yoshio Shirai (46-8-2), Fighting Harada (55-7), Yoko Gushiken (23-1), Jiro Watanabe (26-2), and Shinji Takehara (24-1) fought less. Now the trend continues as those great fighter’s records have been replaced by those of Koki Kameda (27-1), Daiki Kameda’s 22-3, Daisuke Naito (36-3-3), Satoshi Hosono (21-2), Hozumi Hasegawa (29-4), Nobuo Nashiro (16-4-1), Masaaki Serie (20-4), Ryoichi Taguchi (16-10, Kazuto Ioka (9-0), and Ryol Li Lee (18-3-1).
Another documented and longstanding pattern is that when Thai (and especially Colombian) boxers fight outside of their homelands, they generally don’t do well.
Today’s South Korean fighters rarely duke beyond 25 times. The aforementioned Ji Hoon Kim is currently at 23-7. Jae-Kwang Jung (13-2-2) retired after losing to Kim in 2007. The late Yo-Sam Choi (32-5) is probably the last fighter to have had that many fights. He was fatally injured in his final fight in 2007 against well traveled Indonesian veteran Heri Amol in a fight Choi won.
While on the subject of Japanese fighters, the trend there and in most countries (Thailand being the manifest exception) has been to promote more fights in which the boxers are evenly matched in contrast to the past when mismatches were not uncommon. In fact, Mexico, Japan, and South Africa now stand out in this regard.
Fighting less is something that is global in nature and is here to stay. Reflecting this is the fact that even flamboyant Argentineans are fighting fewer times in contrast to their gaudy and monstrous records of the past. However, they still remain the only fighters to compile old-school type records. The day of the 100-fight career is quickly becoming a thing of the past and likely will end if and when Yori Boy Campas wins one more fight. However, there are many fighters in the UK who have more than 100 losses, though few of those have come by way of stoppage. That has been a longstanding pattern in the UK, albeit not an alarming one.
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
Spot on with a number of things there Ted mate.
A mate of mine’s pro record is an amazing won 9 , lost 91 draw 7 . This is true but the most amazing thing to me is that the guy , who I last spoke to about 3 months ago, is still fully compus mentis and , although he’ll never win any quiz nights at the local pub , is not a guy who looks or sounds like he’s been beaten by just about everyone who fought around the jnr. welter’s in the UK between 1999 and 2005.
107 fights in 7 years.
I suppose it’s how you fight those fights or more importantly how much and hard you get hit that counts rather than the number of fights per se. In my mates case I believe he only got stopped ( all tko rather than ko) about six or seven times which says as much about his defense as the 91 losses says about his attack !
Here is a link to a funny( not at the time obviously) story about said mate , I know he won’t mind me sharing this with ya all , hehehe
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-392836/Asthmatic-professional-boxer-claimed-10-years-disability-benefit.html
Disarm you with a smile ....
by Sir Jack Daniels on Feb 14, 2012 3:17 PM EST reply actions
You couldn’t make it up. There’s a fat lazy twat lives by me, hasn’t worked for years, (because he has “a stiff shoulder”… ) lives with his missus and drives a ….. seven seater mpv, because thats what two people need.. Obviously means tested by the same clowns as your pal, Sir Jack.
More like “Planet Sponger”. ;-)
Don't start me on that subject mate
Work keeps me from my boxing stuff and if I have to do it , every fooker has to do it imo !!
My politics can be to the right of Gengis Khan (sometimes ).
I would make the best Social Security Minister the country has ever seen – all claimants would have to be personally interviewed by me …and I would only see three people a day.
Debt crisis solved over night.
Disarm you with a smile ....
by Sir Jack Daniels on Feb 14, 2012 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah , I’ll have a big fooker ! lol .
Seriously though , Keith is a great fella and was a true “travel anywhere to have a scrap” type of guy , without guys like him there’d wouldn’t be much boxing , domestic level that is and without that there is fook all.
I personally don’t begrudge him the £18k – he was gutted he had to pay it all back though I believe.
In my book if you go 9-91-7 you deserve a bit of a break , esp. if your a very nice bloke , ya know?
Disarm you with a smile ....
by Sir Jack Daniels on Feb 14, 2012 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed, he’s obviously a hard working bloke. I couldn’t imagine getting my face punched in so many times with (I’m assuming) relatively little reward. So fair play to him. He’s clearly no lazy arse, unlike so many.
Too lazy to tell the dole he was “better” though hehe.
“little reward” is spot on.
Disarm you with a smile ....
by Sir Jack Daniels on Feb 14, 2012 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
genghis ?
Disarm you with a smile ....
by Sir Jack Daniels on Feb 14, 2012 6:37 PM EST reply actions
I was was washing my van outside once and he pulled up, wound his window down and said
“are you doing mine next?” my reply, #+#%#^+!!!
I had to bite my lip to stop myself from saying I thought that paying for it for him was enough.
lmfao
I know some guys with serious shit wrong with them due to been blown up , shot , burned etc.
The “pensions” and “benifits” some of these guys have to live on is a fooking disgrace . On the other hand we’ve got the “stiff shoulder” crew claiming £1000’s for ….well I don’t know what for .
Bastards.
Disarm you with a smile ....
by Sir Jack Daniels on Feb 14, 2012 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Talking about Planet Boxing, Ted, Marco Antonio Barrera is doing a tour of the UK. I got two tickets for me & the missus to go. Apparently we an meet him too. Barrera in Merseyside…. surreal.
I didn’t know Marco was coming over .
I’ve seen Marco with a Liverpool type track suit on once or twice.
You’re a lucky man , I’d like to meet him , I’d like to ask him about one fight in particular.
Disarm you with a smile ....
by Sir Jack Daniels on Feb 14, 2012 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
He’s in Ellesmere Port (nr Chester) bMarch 9th. I’m really looking forward to it. He’s also in Nottingham andvavfew other venues, maybe one down by you, mate.
I’ll have a look – thanks Phil.
I’m not going to Nottingham though , too many guns and too much Carl Froch lol.
Disarm you with a smile ....
by Sir Jack Daniels on Feb 14, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
Can I?
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
Thank you
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…

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