FanPost

1970 vs 2012: The Battle of the Heavyweights

Mr Lightskintwin inspired me (without him knowing, so no blames on him please) to look up and write on this subject. The 3 points that grabbed my attention were along the lines of:

  • Wladimir Klitschko is not an All Time Great. This means, had he fought in a different era, he wouldn't have been as successful, to the point of probably never getting a belt, or in any case, holding it for long.
  • Ali's time was such an era. Meaning, the overall level of the field back then was higher, or at least the top boxers, the ones that are fighting for championships, were much better than what we have today.
  • Contenders and also rans from that and other eras would be elite today, even to the point of being talked about as future hall of famers because of the extraordinary results they would achieve.

For fun, I am going to pick the top10 from The Ring both at the end of 1970 and the end of 2012, and I'm going to list and briefly commentate each one of the matchups. Then I will add the results and see. I expect other people to post their own results and opinions.

Before starting, this is not scientific or anything. The sample is anecdotically small, the pairings themselves are random, the opinions are opinions. If we change years, the fighters change, the positions change, etc. This is only intended as a soft way to approach the subject. Plus there's the many style matchups that can favour one or the other group depending on how you sort them.

I choose 1970 because I think light casually mentioned this year, and it's also the last rankings before Ali vs Frazier. I think it's a good list, any other from within a few years would be equally good, better, worse, depending I guess, I haven't looked at them. I picked 2012 instead of 2013 because I wanted Haye and Vitali in, I know it's cheating a bit, but anyway Haye and Vitali are a part of what the elite of the division has been for the last few years, so well, they are in.

To list their weights, I have picked, for each one, their weight to the closest relevant fight I find around the time. For example, I'm going to use Foreman's weight against Chuvalo, Haye's' against Chisora or Wlad's against Thompson. I'm too lazy to check hundreds of numbers and do averages and all that.

As an additional disclaimer, I really don't know some of the fighters from the 70s, much less I have watched them fight. So any help is appreciated, I'm not really breaking the fights down, only listing them along with some information.

The Ring Heavyweight Rankings for 1970

Champion: Joe Frazier

  1. Muhammad Ali
  2. George Foreman
  3. Oscar Bonavena
  4. Jerry Quarry
  5. Mac Foster
  6. Henry Cooper
  7. George Chuvalo
  8. Sonny Liston
  9. Jose Ibar Urtain
  10. Jose Luis García

The Ring Heavyweight Rankings for 2012

Champion: Wladimir Klitschko

  1. Vitali Klitschko
  2. Alexander Povetkin
  3. David Haye
  4. Kubrat Pulev
  5. Tomasz Adamek
  6. Robert Helenius
  7. Dennis Boytsov
  8. Ruslan Chagaev
  9. Chris Arreola
  10. Tyson Fury


The matchups:

Fight 1: Frazier vs W. Klitschko
Frazier: 5′ 11½″, 206 lbs, 73" reach

Klitschko: 6' 6', 249 lbs, 81" reach

Not going to say much about this one. I think Klitschko would win more than he would lose against Joe because it would be almost impossible for Joe to get to Wladimir, plainly. 43 lbs, 6" in height and 8" in reach seem too large advantages for Joe to overcome with the different traits in which he had a definite advantage over Wlad.

MODERN WIN

Fight 2: Ali vs V. Klitschko

Ali: 6' 3'', 215 lbs, 78" reach

Klitschko: 6' 7", 243 lbs, 79" reach

This one is very different. For one, Ali is much closer in size than Frazier was to the other brother. Secondly, Ali's style is very different. He wouldn't try to overpower Vitali, nor would he need it. He was still young in 1970, he had his speed, his reflexes, so Vitali surely wouldn't land much hard on him. Even if he did, Ali had a tremendous chin. Over a series, I think Vitali could maybe catch Ali with something nasty eventually and win off it, but I give this one to Ali because I think he would win quite more often.

OLD WIN

Fight 3: Foreman vs Povetkin

Foreman: 6′ 3½, 218lbs, 78½″ reach

Povetkin: 6' 2", 229 lbs, 75" reach

Big George was actually bigger than Povetkin, and he would get much bigger some decades later, even. I don't know what you guys think, Foreman is one of my favourites, and while I think Povetkin is good, I'm positive he would shit his pants in front of the Foreman of 1970, then get brutally knocked out just like the rest of them.

OLD WIN

Fight 4: Bonavena vs Haye

Bonavena: 5′ 10½″, 204 lbs, 73" reach

Haye: 6' 3", 210 lbs, 78" reach

I don't know about Bonavena, honestly. Some of his losses came against true greats so I don't know if I'm making a terrible mistake here. After all, he was ranked 3rd by The Ring. Still, I think Haye, who would be a bit taller, heavier and with a bit more reach, while looking faster and more athletic, would take this so he has my vote.

MODERN WIN

Fight 5: Quarry vs Pulev

Quarry: 6', 197½ lbs, 72" reach

Pulev: 6′ 4½″, 251 lbs, reach not listed

Quarry also fought some greats in his time. Still, he was stopped 6 times in his career and he didn't have an awesome KO record either. So I don't know how he handles Pulev, but if he handles him, you tell me.

MODERN WIN

Fight 6: Foster vs Adamek

Foster: 6' 2", 222 lbs, reach not listed

Adamek: 6′ 1½″, 222 lbs, 75" reach

Well I didn't even know who Foster was. These two are the same size. Turns out I have read Foster's Wikipedia page and I liked what I saw there. All his wins were by stoppage!!! How f***ing cool is that? So I don't know, I think he beats Adamek, tell me if you think he doesn't.

OLD WIN

Fight 7: Cooper vs Helenius

Cooper: 6' ½", 190 lbs, 75" reach

Helenius: 6′ 6½″, 243 lbs, 79" reach

So you tell me. I don't know. Helenius might be pretty bad but towering over Cooper and with a 50 pound advantage, I find it hard for Cooper to take him out there. If you disagree, tell me.

MODERN WIN

Fight 8: Chuvalo vs Boytsov

Chuvalo: 6', 231 lbs, reach not listed

Boytsov: 6'1'', 235 lbs, reach not listed

So let's see. I don't know, but they are the same size. And according to h0lydiver's rules of hypothetical matchups, when they are the same size, the one that is more badass, wins. Boytsov might be mildly badass, but Chuvalo is f***ing badass, he fought plenty of greats and he was never knocked down, so he is a thousand times more badass than Boytsov and he wins.

OLD WIN

Fight 9: Liston vs Chagaev

Liston: 6′ 0½″, 219 lbs, 84" reach

Chagaev: 5'11", 242 lbs, 74" reach

I think Liston KOs Chagaev. Tell me what you think.

OLD WIN

Fight 10: Urtain vs Arreola

Urtain: 5'11", 195 lbs, 70" reach

Arreola: 6'3", 245 lbs, 76" reach

Urtain!! El tigre de Zenoa!!! A Spanish Heavyweight in The Ring top10?? You bet! Turns out people from the Basque Country have the fame of being overly tough, and overly proud too, there's books of jokes about them. This is one of them:

A guy there enters a bakery and asks the shopkeeper: "two breads, please, and if you have eggs, give me two dozen". And he went back home with 24 breads.

*if you have eggs ----> if you have the balls, in Spanish

So yeah, I'm sorry about my countryman here but he would be probably be stopped badly by Arreola.

MODERN WIN

Fight 11: García vs Fury

García: 6'4", 191 lbs, reach not listed

Fury: 6'9", 232 lbs, 85" reach

Finally, the fight you all have been desperately scrolling down to find!! The Venezuelan was certainly tall for the times, but he's fighting Tyson f***ing Fury here. It's common knowledge Fury is the best heavyweight from the recent future so the smart money is on Fury here. I challenge you to argue otherwise.

MODERN WIN

FINAL RESULTS: 2012 CLASS WINS 6-5!!!!

So, if you pick Frazier taking out Wlad, 1970 class wins 6-5. And then, what else would you change? What's your score? Does thinking about this changes, even slightly, what you think about the difference in levels between those different eras? Does it not?

Do I have too much free time in my hands? I think so.

<strong><font color="red">FanPosts are user-created content written by community members of Bad Left Hook, and are generally not the work of our editors. <em>Please do not source FanPosts as the work of Bad Left Hook</em>.</font></strong>

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