Way down in the depths of a recent post Pakinpower posted this pic of Ali appearing on a talk-show with Sly AB Stone.
This got me thinking of the great TV interview of Muhammad Ali by Michael Parkinson, the doyenne of TV interviewers worldwide. Ali needs no introduction in this place and I suspect that Parky needs none to many of you. Suffice to say that the interview is a lesson in how an intelligent and sympathetic inquisitor can get an honest and revealing response without exploiting the interviewee's less polished skills, and that the trust established by so doing may itself bring forth bounty.
It is beyond dispute that the two men were greats in their respective endeavours, not only great in their own time but great in any time, Parky was at the peak of his powers and Ali either was or wasn't, depending on your point of view. In this case it doesn't matter because they weren't boxing, that was never on the cards. There was no dispute about who was the better boxer, no dispute on either side. This gets jokingly established very early on indeed as Parky surrenders all physical supremacy to Ali who towers over him in mock menace. It's like watching a puppy roll over in front of the big dog, but some of them puppies are smart little puppies that can bite and move and whilst there might not be any boxing they sure as hell ended up sparring.
Both Ali and Parky had done their homework. Ali had been chewing up interviewers for many years but he knew that Parky was in another league to the rest: Quick on his feet, good technique, looked a pushover but was deceptively tough. It would take more than a technical flourish or a quick shuffle to throw Parky off as he would pursue his subject relentlessly. Always just out of range, never wasting a question, backing off quickly on the admittedly rare mistake, Parky would get inside and then kill you with a liver shot. [Insert your favourite liver shot gifs below, boys!]
Parky knew that Ali was showy, would dance and hide and then catch him with hard counters if he got sloppy. Softly, softly is the way and Parky can move like a ghost: Just when you think you've got him pinned, you relax to admire your work and suddenly the little puppy you were about to chastise has turned you around and is throwing bombs at your head from, like, fucking nowhere!
The whole interview, just the two guys head to head, is an hour long and well worth a watch but here's an RBR.
Parky acts as announcer and gives Ali a warm and generous introduction. The crowd goes wild, well, as wild as a 1974 UK TV audience ever could be said to have gone wild and Ali, looking good, takes his seat to generous applause. Just a few rounds, exhibition style ... easy money!
They meet in the middle, touch gloves and we're off with Parky giving Ali every chance to show off his easy inter-personal skills as Ali wows the audience with intelligence and grace as he flirts with the boundaries of modesty, false humility and outright arrogance.
Parky's rocked!!
Parky slips up as Ali is regaling us with a tale of how poor a boxer George Foreman is. He throws a weak protest like a lazy cross " You can't just put George Foreman down like that!" and Ali counters quick as a flash with a hurt-sounding "But I did put him down!" The crowd goes wild! (again)
Parky climbs to his feet, nods respectfully at a good point well made and shuffles back, almost Frazier-like in his pursuit, a sight that Ali knows only too well. Ali proceeds to talk of Frazier (including the most outrageous peek-a-boo from behind the gloves ever seen), ridicules Foreman's movement and lack of fortitude . See the look on Ali's face at 7:08 "I said Man, this is the wrong place to get tired!" The crowd is lapping up this razzle-dazzle display from The Greatest.
Round two: We get the obligatory 70's "nigger" moment, required viewing for students of racial politics but handled with aplomb by both men. Mutual respect is already apparent but Ali leaves us in no doubt as to who is the boss in here. He isn't yet ready to concede an inch to Parky and Parky keeps coming forward. Ali goes off on one about Joe Bugner and how Joe doesn't get the respect he deserves from men like Parky who have, lest we forget, never actually laced a pair on.
15 mins in and Parky is getting crucified ... this is Ali just pounding on him. And then it turns ... Ali let's an innocent looking response slip by and all of a sudden realises his mistake. (See his face at 16:27: "This guy's my promoter now??" Ali comes back with a beauty of a line but nonetheless the first concession that this guy has some moves too and that he might have to watch himself here. "You know something ... if I had a lower IQ I could enjoy this conversation!"
Mutual respect now firmly established Parky gives Ali some room and soon he's off and spouting some views on race, religion and gender-politics that are perhaps best glossed over, but I'll say in his defence that he exposes himself as honest but uneducated, sincere and well-intentioned but sorely misguided. He goes into a rant, dismissing Parky's attempted interjection with a wave and a cautionary note ..."Listen, ... !" (22:30) Ali falls in love with the sound of his own voice and finds himself all of a sudden being corrected on his sense of racial history by a middle-aged white dude! Slippery little bastard!
25 mins in and Ali over-reaches again and gets caught ... Parky: "What do mean I'm not righteous?" Clenches fist and grins at Ali ... Ali milks the moment ... buying himself some time to collect his scrambled thoughts he mugs and grimaces, all mock anger and indignation.
At 30 mins the gloves come off ... Parky is visibly hurt by some of Ali's more outlandish claims and decides to fight back. Check the look at 32:08! Now it's Ali's turn to back up a bit. This scrap is on!
Ali lays it out for Parky with a boast ... "You can't beat me physically or mentally! Parky is like a Spartan in his reply ... "We'll see."
Parky presses on and Ali's gets caught again but blusters through and Parky backs off as Ali expounds on the value of education, sounds off on his religious beliefs and opens up to enquiry. Parky lets him go until Ali again over-steps and Boom!. At 45 minutes Parky stuns him with a categorical denial. "No I didn't!" Ali is stopped in his tracks but manages to somehow roll on, clearly feeling the heat of the clearly smarter man. Ali is the one backing off, but as Parky comes in Ali turns the tables again, questioning Parky's true motives for asking all these questions, a subtle variation on the victim card that catches Parky cold!
And so they dealt with each other to the end, with hard knocks and hard-earned respect. It is perhaps needless to say that Ali clained a victory, Parky was happy to concede a defeat and most everybody else called it an honourable draw. I suspect that Ali may have only truly admired two Englishmen; Parky was one, Harry Carpenter the other.
I dread to think how the same kind of interview would turn out today, and I mourn that which we have lost..
via i.ytimg.com