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10 Points of Interest: Pavlik-Taylor II and undercard

In addition to post-fight wrap-ups, I've decided to do a "10 Points of Interest" post-fight chatterbox sort of a thing for the big cards. More to keep talking, because I rarely say everything I want to say in one shot.

By the way, I have a feeling we're going to see a lot of disagreement about the decision last night, and I do think it's one of those fights where both sides have a good argument. Those that supported Pavlik -- I can see it. I felt Taylor won and did so pretty clearly, but we all see fights differently. Harold Lederman, for instance, has taken the habit of seeing things in a totally bizarre manner.

Anyway, on with the show.

1. Jermain Taylor has guts

Say what you want about Jermain -- and his nickname seems pretty dated at this point -- but the man has cojones. Just taking a rematch with Pavlik showed that. Having the sack to end a terrible partnership with the legendary Manny Steward showed it, too. He wanted to beat the man that beat him. He came up short, but he did so with his head held high. Jermain Taylor's two wins over Bernard Hopkins are still disputed by many. I think his loss to Pavlik will be much the same.

2. Kelly Pavlik is the real deal

This was like Calzaghe-Kessler for me, in some ways. I thought both guys did a pretty good job. I credit Taylor for taking Kelly out of his comfort zone. But Kelly Pavlik showed he can fight hard for 12 rounds against a tremendous fighter. This is not a guy who needs to score a knockout to win a fight. His skills are better than he's given credit for sometimes -- much like Miguel Cotto.

3. Not all rematches are created equal

I really don't mean to dis the fighters when I call the bout "underwhelming" -- but it was, at least to me. It did not live up to the September fight at all. But it's not often you get Vazquez-Marquez-type rivalries. That's why those are so special. This was a good, clean fight. Nothing more, nothing less. A very professional effort from both men, if you know what I mean.

4. Judges live in a damn dreamworld sometimes

120-108 for Jose Navarro? Really? Mijares didn't win a single round, yet the other two judges gave the fight to him? Mijares-Navarro was very competitive, a ton of close rounds. I gave the fight to Navarro, 115-113, but it was really close. The decision doesn't bother me. Pavlik beating Taylor, for the record, doesn't really bother me. In neither case do I think we're talking about a robbery or anything of the sort. 120-108 for Navarro is ridiculous, though.

5. Fernando Montiel is really good

Montiel basically barnstormed through Martin Castillo, a good fighter. With Mijares' inconsistent performances -- his brutal win over Jorge Arce was a career-best, by far -- and shoddy recent choice of opponents (past Navarro, who is a good fighter), I think I have to consider Montiel the clear No. 1 in the world at 115 pounds. Mijares and Alexander Munoz both have arguments, and Vic Darchinyan might if he ever gets back to being the destruction machine he was pre-Nonito.

6. Time for Ronald Hearns to step up a little

Look, Baby Hitman is no baby. He's 29 years old. Either he's going to be a real fighter or he's not. Beating Juan Astorga with clinical precision proved nothing, and neither have any of his other wins. At 18-0, it's time he started at least fighting journeymen and gatekeepers.

7. Next for Pavlik?

A fight with John Duddy in June was all but signed, sealed and delivered, but now there's talk of Don King trying to get Tito Trinidad into a bout with the middleweight champ. I have no doubt Pavlik wins either fight. I like Tito Trinidad, but 160 was never his best weight to begin with, and look, he's old, you know? But I'd rather see that than Pavlik slaughtering the sacrificial lamb Duddy. I have a hard time even considering Duddy one of the 10 best middleweights in the world. His career best win is over a 37-year old Howard Eastman who left the ring that night a loser in five of his last seven. Tito might not be the most deserving, but it's somewhat compelling, and Trinidad still demands attention.

8. Next for Taylor?

Who knows? This depends on Jermain's mental state right now, probably. He looked as good as he is in a long time with Ozell Nelson in place of Steward, and he should stick with his longtime mentor as head trainer. Ozell and Jermain had a great plan for Kelly Pavlik, I thought. And Jermain also never wavered and fought stupidly, as he had done every fight under Steward. He's going to be at 168. He may or may not have to win a fight or two before getting a title shot. But there are names out there I'd love to see Taylor against. Count Calzaghe out for now, as he's obviously pretty busy. Kessler, Bute, Miranda, Green, Pascal, Lacy, Andrade -- those are all possible, probably, and all intriguing on a lot of levels. I think the weight will serve Jermain well, and he should do well in the division if the two losses to Pavlik don't really get him down.

9. Most people thought the fight was quite good

That should be said. I'm glad people enjoyed the bout, and I hope we get more fights of this nature. Having the best fight the best is never a bad thing. ESPN's Dan Rafael called it "another classic sort of fight," and Dan has seen a few fights in his day. It just didn't push the buttons for me personally, I guess.

10. Kelly Pavlik is a wonderful ambassador for boxing

Is it possible to dislike Pavlik? He is gracious in victory, never seems like he has a swelled head, and from all accounts, doesn't stop working to make himself better. He is a true champion, and he proved it after the fight when he said, "Jermain taking the rematch made the sport better."

This was a fight about redemption for Taylor, and he came up short on the cards. But he is a class act and a class fighter, and so is Kelly Pavlik, who now holds two wins over Taylor. For Kelly Pavlik, he proved that he was no one-hit wonder, that September 29, 2007, was not a one-time affair.

So the fight didn't live up to my expectations. But the fighters did so during and after the fight. It's tricky to praise any athlete for their personality because who really knows them, and the whole thing could turn around on you in one night at a strip club, but these guys have been this way as long as we've seen them in the spotlight. Both of them deserve nothing but the best in their professional careers.

It wasn't about a title, it wasn't even really about money. It was two men that put on a classic last year going out to try and do it again, for respect, for pride, and for the betterment of the sport they compete in. All kudos to both of them.

And who knows, we just might see them fight later on again down the line. Both are likely ultimately destined for the 175-pound weight class.

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Guys like Taylor and Pavlik raise the camp up
While the fight may not have delivered it's originals action, it's good to see these types of guys in boxing. Not ducking the competition, saying "yeah, I'll fight him" and doing it. Then to top it off not complaining about the decision at the end of the fight. I liked Taylor's chances in this one without Manny in his corner. Legend or no, Steward downplayed Pavlik's power, and probably had it in Jermain's head that he was the superior fighter and it wasn't close. While his motivational tactics may have been to build confidence in a young man, I think it back-fired in that case, and Jermain underestimated Kelly the first time around. Without that type of mentality going into this fight he seems to have fought the better fight. Decision or no, and I'm not upset about it as I didn't watch the fight. However, coming into watch rounds 11+12 I saw Taylor rocking some body shots, looking the more lively of the two, and Pavlik looking beat up. I hope these two stick around and stay relevant for some time.

by rickmatheny on Feb 17, 2008 12:30 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Difficult to Score
I thought the fight was exceptionally difficult to score. I had it a draw and could have seen it go either way. The guys I watched the fight with were all rooting for Pavlik and scored it to him closely.

The 120 - 108 score for Navarro disqualifies the judge from ever scoring a boxing event again. Period.

As far as entertainment goes, I thought it was a little disappointing, but not much. There was no running, no heartless performance. They just both played it more cautiously.

Taylor seemed to have taken a hint from Winky Wright, as he blocked many more shots with his gloves-over-the-whole-face approach this time around. He did a fine job pacing himself but still tires too fast for a boxer his age and at his weight. He will never be an elite best again without better cardio and endurance. He will still be good, but you will not beat the Calzaghes and Pavliks of this world without being able to go the full 12 at near 100%

by Matt Miller on Feb 17, 2008 2:50 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Navarro
I gotta say, here was another fight where I left the room to grab a drink, thinking the score was both obvious and inevitable.  Then in the hallway I hear my friends do that collective confused-ape sound so familiar to fight fans.  You know the one I'm talking about.  I race back in, and everyone is cracking up, thinking Buffer read the card wrong.

Actually, since we all voted to leave the sound of on Lampley and Stewarts ridiculous between-fight patter, it was a mystery whether that was the case.  Do we have confirmation that this was a "real" score, and not just a botched scorecard or announcement?

by jrok on Feb 18, 2008 10:50 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pavlik-Taylor
I think I know what you mean when you say "underwhelming," SC.  The rematch certainly did not live up to the expectations of the first fight.  But I still thought it was a pretty entertaining scrap, and I would probably pay to see a third fight, though it doesn't seem likely it'll happen.  I actually wanted Pavlik to win the fight, but I had Taylor up 115-113 at the end.

For me, the surprise of the night has to be the 120-108 scorecard in favor of Jose Navarro.  I had Mijares winning that fight 116-112.  I agree with Matt: that judge should never be allowed to score another fight again.  Both him and Harold Lederman should be confined to watching big fights at ESPN Zone in Baltimore.

Pavlik would indeed make mincemeat of Duddy.  If anyone has a shot at beating Pavlik at 160, it would be Winky Wright.  And if that fight were to take place, I wouldn't bet on it being as interesting as this one: Winky would, in all likelyhood, revert to his defensive shell-like style and work the jab, much like he did against Trinidad.  It seems to me that in his last couple of fights, Winky has tried to be more offensive-minded (translation: viewer-friendly), and that hasn't quite panned out.

I would much rather see Pavlik-Trinidad.  As I said before, Trinidad has never lost to a fighter like Kelly Pavlik.  His only three losses have come to faster, more defensive-minded fighters.  He has never lost to a guy who has been willing to stand and trade shots with him, and that's exactly what Pavlik would do.  Joppy tried to bang with Tito (much like Vargas did), and we all know how that turned out.  I'm not saying Tito would win, but it would make for an interesting fight.

However, dampening the discussions of Pavlik-Trinidad is Felix Trinidad Sr., who was quoted in today's El Nuevo Dia saying that he would not want Tito to fight anywhere under 168.  I could go into one of my rants about how Felix Trinidad Sr. is one of the worst trainers in the history of the sport, how he has single-handedly cost Tito tens of millions of dollars in potential earnings and how he has been a horrible matchmaker, but what would be the point?  You've heard it all before.  Anyone who saw the Roy Jones fight knows that Tito has no power at 170.  If he's not willing to come down to at least 160, he should definitely retire.

by Kevin Gonzalez on Feb 17, 2008 5:15 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice pair of articles
This article and the last one pretty much sum up my Saturday night, although I'll admit to liking the fight (and Pavlik's performance in it) a bit more than you.  

Its strange how wide the scoring was on this thing from knowledgeable folks. I saw Pavlik firmly taking control in the championship rounds in a sort of old-school mugging.  It seemed like around round 9 Taylor's engine just stalled and didn't turn over again until it was too late.  For the record, I had 116-112 for Pavlik, but my buddy had it 115-113 Taylor and we both agreed either card would not be controversial.   I still think that this was a clear UD, though I'll watch it again to be sure.    

Although the jab wasn't as consistent as it was the first time (and never really seemed to set up that brutal right), the volume of them never disappeared and they continued to score throughout the fight.  Still Taylor did lots of things right, fighting better than he has in years.   I think his body attack may have set a sort of blueprint to defeat Pavlik.

by jrok on Feb 18, 2008 10:39 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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