Bad Left Hook - BLH Fantasy Boxing SeriesGlobal Boxing News and Commentaryhttps://cdn.vox-cdn.com/community_logos/47131/backingthepack-fave.png2020-05-12T12:00:00-04:00http://www.badlefthook.com/rss/stream/209681092020-05-12T12:00:00-04:002020-05-12T12:00:00-04:00Fantasy Matchup: Would De La Hoya beat McGregor in 2020?
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<p>The fight has been a top of discussion lately, so cards on the table, would the Golden Boy beat the UFC star in 2020?</p> <p id="IYPJi9">A few days back, <a href="https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/5/8/21251708/oscar-de-la-hoya-vs-conor-mcgregor-fight-ufc-boxing-news">Oscar De La Hoya made some headlines for telling the State of Combat podcast that he’d knock UFC star Conor McGregor out in two rounds if they were to meet in a boxing match</a>.</p>
<p id="hqyqGy">McGregor said he’d take that challenge, and Oscar clarified that he wasn’t making a challenge, he had just been asked a question and answered in honest fashion with what he really believes.</p>
<p id="fJ0Ka7">De La Hoya is 47 years old and hasn’t fought competitively since 2008, when he was diced up and retired by Manny Pacquiao. The 31-year-old McGregor has only done one pro boxing match, back in 2017, losing to Floyd Mayweather via 10th round stoppage in a fight where the level of competitiveness is at least somewhat questionable, at least on one side of the ring that night, at least in my view.</p>
<p id="FIOQj2">But let’s say it actually happened in 2020. It won’t, because in the unlikely event it happened at all, it would require massive purses, which would require fans in attendance for gate money, and that’s not likely to be happening any time soon, at least not in a “pack the arena full” manner. (Plus we’d have to end the feud between Oscar and UFC President Dana White to even get a deal done, and I <a href="https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/5/8/21252742/oscar-de-la-hoya-tirade-aimed-ufc-president-dana-white-tweet-conor-mcgregor-boxing"><em>don’t think that’s happening</em></a>.)</p>
<p id="v1iyA9">But LET’S JUST SAY, for the absolutely GD F of it here. Is De La Hoya right? With a full training camp, in good shape, would his boxing skills and instincts still be too much for McGregor, who is younger and in his physical prime? Conor hits hard and has an awkward style that doesn’t look anything like high-level boxing, which could give him some stylistic advantages in its weird way, but compared to even an aged De La Hoya, he’s really a novice boxer, with due respect to his striking skills.</p>
<p id="wxcB3I">If it were to happen now, the ages they are — but let’s say they’re both in good shape — who wins?</p>
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https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/5/12/21255546/fantasy-boxing-matchup-would-oscar-de-la-hoya-beat-conor-mcgregor-poll-ufc-newsScott Christ2020-04-24T12:00:00-04:002020-04-24T12:00:00-04:00Fantasy Matchup: Hearns vs Trinidad
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<p>Two big welterweight punchers from different eras. Who wins?</p> <p id="i3iwXm">Another day, another fantasy matchup. (Granted we’re not doing them daily anymore, but today we are, so hey!)</p>
<p id="qZ0o2U">If you’ve missed any of these matchups — including the most recent, <a href="https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/4/21/21229127/fantasy-boxing-matchup-andre-ward-vs-joe-calzaghe-dream-fight-fan-vote">Andre Ward vs Joe Calzaghe</a>, which is a really tight poll and still open for voting — <a href="https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/4/2/21204068/blh-fantasy-boxing-matchups-series-dream-fights">check out the stream page with all of them</a>.</p>
<p id="eUce5I">Today we go to the welterweight division for another matchup of modern greats from different eras.</p>
<h2 id="qAuBnj">Thomas Hearns vs Felix Trinidad</h2>
<p id="AcDLHY">Not a lot of mystery or stylistic “hmmm” to be done about this matchup, perhaps. Both were big punchers, neither was afraid to get into a tear-up. The one guarantee I think there is in this matchup is excitement. You’re gonna see some big shots land.</p>
<p id="jBabCJ">Puerto Rico’s Trinidad was a pretty big welterweight, standing 5’11” with a 72½” reach. He was able to fight capably and win world titles at 154 and 160, though 160 was looking a bit much for him, even considering his losses at that weight were against two great, incredibly smart fighters (Bernard Hopkins and Winky Wright).</p>
<p id="rOn59U">Down at 147, Trinidad never lost a fight, and scored a sincere win over Pernell Whitaker and a controversial victory over Oscar De La Hoya, both in 1999.</p>
<p id="mk18UJ">But when you talk “big welterweights,” Hearns always springs to mind immediately. It’s not just that he was 6’1”, either; the man had a 78” reach. Muhammad Ali had a 78” reach. Vitali Klitschko had a 79” reach. And as far as other modern great welterweights go, they’re largely around that Trinidad range, 71” to 74” or so.</p>
<p id="eLQhno">The Hitman had a devastating right hand; it’s the right hand that really put Kronk and Emanuel Steward on the map. Thomas Hearns, to this day, is the fighter most widely associated with Kronk and Steward’s legacy, and it largely came down to that absolute missile of a right hand punch.</p>
<p id="EcN71m">Hearns only lost one fight at welterweight, to Sugar Ray Leonard in a stone cold classic fight in 1981. That was also Hearns’ last fight at 147, and he went on to win world titles at 154, 160, and 175.</p>
<p id="OxQoaC">Trinidad had an effective style, could throw in good combination, but often would get a little one-dimensional, let his aggression get the better of him strategically. This betrayed him at 160 against guys like Hopkins and Wright, and De La Hoya gave him real trouble at 147, even if you think Tito ultimately deserved that win.</p>
<p id="qI7JRH">Hearns, of course, had that unique build and could generate ferocious power with his length. He jabbed extremely well to set up his right hands. Though he’d let himself get into a fight, when he was in control, he was a terrific boxer, too. Hearns had a dentable chin and sometimes a little of a leaky defense, but you had to get past his shots, too.</p>
<p id="RP8xF4">So who wins?</p>
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https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/4/24/21234148/fantasy-boxing-matchup-thomas-hearns-vs-felix-trinidad-dream-fightScott Christ2020-04-21T12:00:00-04:002020-04-21T12:00:00-04:00Fantasy Matchup: Ward vs Calzaghe
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<p>Someone’s “0” would have to go, which it never did in real life.</p> <p id="3jDKVb">The fantasy matchups are back today with a dream fight at 168 pounds.</p>
<p id="SdrryF">If you’ve missed any of the previous discussions, <a href="https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/4/2/21204068/blh-fantasy-boxing-matchups-series-dream-fights">check out the stream with everything included</a>!</p>
<h2 id="wwU6dt">Andre Ward vs Joe Calzaghe</h2>
<p id="AkCbNi">Super middleweight is still a young division in boxing’s history. Its roots may have started in the 1960s, but it wasn’t really fully recognized until 1984, when the IBF created a 168-pound title, and the WBA and WBC followed suit in 1987 and 1988. The 1990s saw the division get a little more traction behind names like Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank, Michael Watson, and Steve Collins, and Roy Jones Jr and James Toney also briefly competed at the weight.</p>
<p id="2XgfRN">Jones is largely regarded as probably the <em>best </em>fighter with a run of any note at super middleweight, competing six times as a super middleweight and winning every fight by stoppage before moving up to 175 in 1996.</p>
<p id="kWgyiO">But “best” and “greatest” can mean different things. Jones’ run at super middle wasn’t lengthy enough, perhaps, to be called the “greatest” super middleweight of all time; his time at light heavyweight is really thought to be the peak of his career, I would say, when you combine ability and commercial notoriety. That’s when he was at his biggest as a star.</p>
<p id="9HrU9Y">So who are the greatest super middleweights of all time?</p>
<p id="oI4Njr">Maybe Joe Calzaghe and Andre Ward. Neither man ever lost a fight in his career, and both stepped up to 175 to become the champ there, too, before they also both retired relatively young. Calzaghe stepped aside at age 36 after beating Bernard Hopkins and a washed Jones at 175 in 2008, and Ward hasn’t fought since 2017, when he retired at age 33 after two wins over Sergey Kovalev.</p>
<p id="DRsXDf">The peak for both, though, came at 168. That’s where they made their names and became pound-for-pound list standouts.</p>
<p id="knrA1I">Calzaghe (career record of 46-0, 32 KO) turned pro in 1993 and won the British title in 1995. Early on he looked like a puncher — he started his career 22-0 with 21 stoppage wins — which clashes greatly with the larger perception of him, and considering once the competition stepped up, Joe went 24-0 with just 11 more stoppage wins, that’s earned. No one who watched Calzaghe’s really relevant years would argue he was a big puncher.</p>
<p id="UWbuk4">The Welshman won his first world title in 1997, beating Chris Eubank for the vacant WBO super middleweight title, which was lightly-regarded at the time but we may as well count it at this point. He defended that belt 17 times through 2005, before he was matched up with unbeaten American Jeff Lacy, a rising star who went over to Manchester to face Calzaghe.</p>
<p id="XJq8F0">The question now is whether Lacy was overhyped or Calzaghe just ruined him, because Calzaghe beat the brakes off Lacy, and Jeff never looked particularly good again. Calzaghe grabbed the IBF belt with that win, and defended both titles against Sakio Bika and Peter Manfredo before a big clash with unbeaten Mikkel Kessler, the WBC titleholder, in 2007.</p>
<p id="fLR4Sg">Calzaghe beat Kessler, too, then made his move up to 175, having done as much as there was to do at 168.</p>
<p id="ZPSztT">Ward won gold at the 2004 Olympics, and to this day is the last male American boxer to win an Olympic gold medal. Turning pro that December, Ward didn’t exactly storm the gates of pro boxing, as he took his time putting things together, had a few little nagging injuries here and there, and then joined the Super Six World Boxing Classic, a round robin tournament at 168 pounds put together by Showtime in 2009.</p>
<p id="xTo0sE">Ward (career record of 32-0, 16 KO) announced his true arrival as a world class fighter with his own win over Kessler to kick off his tournament run in late 2009, and during the course of the event also handily defeated Allan Green, Sakio Bika, and Arthur Abraham, before outpointing Carl Froch in 2011 to win the tournament in Atlantic City. Ward’s win over Froch was sort of like Calzaghe’s over Kessler; in all reality, there was nothing left for Andre to do at 168.</p>
<p id="WRY6xi">He did fight two more times in the division. Chad Dawson came down from 175 in 2012 for a fight with Andre, and Ward destroyed him, and then Ward defended his WBA belt against Edwin Rodriguez in 2013 before moving up to 175.</p>
<p id="HNe4Q4">Both Calzaghe and Ward were extremely smart fighters, incredibly crafty, got the absolute most out of their abilities, and didn’t care if they had to win in somewhat ugly fashion. Calzaghe was an absolute master at using the clinch to disrupt his opponents, while Ward, while never known as a huge puncher himself, was physically very strong and would often bully opponents.</p>
<p id="DteIHt">Both were very sound defensively, sharp on offense, and had strong relationships with a single trainer, Joe with his father Enzo, and Ward with Virgil Hunter. The game plans were always well-engineered and well-executed.</p>
<p id="c3KgRN">These were not guys who often jumped off the screen as insanely good fighters, there wasn’t always a ton of flash to them, but they both really were absolutely fantastic.</p>
<p id="sdcs3x">Most likely, Ward-Calzaghe would not wind up on a Fight of the Year list, and there’s even a good chance a lot of people would be flat-out bored by what we’d get. But for the “chess match” fans, this one could be fascinating.</p>
<p id="6BvZ7S">So who wins?</p>
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https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/4/21/21229127/fantasy-boxing-matchup-andre-ward-vs-joe-calzaghe-dream-fight-fan-voteScott Christ2020-04-17T12:00:00-04:002020-04-17T12:00:00-04:00Fantasy Matchup: Ali vs Holmes, both in their primes
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<p>The heavyweight legends did meet in 1980, but what if they’d fought with both at their very best?</p> <p id="77T5T6">This week’s run of fantasy boxing matchups closes out with a fight we actually did see, kind of, but with the usual fantasy twist of what we didn’t see when they met in real life: both fighters in peak form.</p>
<p id="g9grNR">If you’ve missed any of these, <a href="https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/4/2/21204068/blh-fantasy-boxing-matchups-series-dream-fights">check out the hub page for the entire fantasy boxing series</a>.</p>
<h2 id="h09KQ5">Muhammad Ali vs Larry Holmes</h2>
<p id="Lo5Lh6">Everyone knows that Larry Holmes beat the brakes off Muhammad Ali in 1980. It’s a fight that has been discussed many times, but not as a great fight or a legendary night.</p>
<p id="2Kp1Op">It’s a fight that has been discussed almost exclusively through the lens of sadness. The 38-year-old Ali was shot. He hadn’t even fought in over two years when he decided to face Holmes, who had firmly taken control of the heavyweight division at age 30. Holmes was Ali’s successor in many ways, having taken the WBC title from Ken Norton in 1978, making seven successful defenses from there, before being matched with “The Greatest.”</p>
<p id="oKz81S">Ali was no longer <em>Ali</em>. The fight with Holmes was a regrettable affair; it would have been best left unexplored. Instead, Holmes completely dominated Ali for 10 rounds until trainer Angelo Dundee mercifully stopped the assault.</p>
<p id="Zp4WGX">Ali’s doctor Ferdie Pacheco — who had left Ali’s team in 1977 because he didn’t think Muhammad should be fighting anymore — would say, “All the people involved in this fight should’ve been arrested. This fight was an abomination, a crime.”</p>
<p id="VefTf0">“It was really hard because he was my buddy,” <a href="https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/larry-holmes-interview">Holmes said in 2017 to GQ Magazine</a>. Ali had hired a young Holmes as a sparring partner in the early 1970s. “He was the guy that gave me a job. He was the guy that taught me how to fight.”</p>
<p id="6o3o2t">It was really just not a good night for boxing, looking back on it.</p>
<p id="zQ3hRj">But what if you could teleport each man at his best together during their primes?</p>
<p id="1VlgVs">I don’t think I need to get much into styles or anything. Everyone has seen Ali; he’s not called “The Greatest” just because it was good marketing. He was an outstanding heavyweight even among outstanding heavyweights — but he was not unbeatable or without any flaws. He had speed, power, incredible skill, a chin, and he was determined and driven to win at all costs.</p>
<p id="44BDyd">Holmes may not have reached the incredible heights Ali did, or have the flashy style of Muhammad, but he was a great pro who learned tremendously even though he started boxing later than most, applied it all, and used his strengths incredibly well. He was a 6’3” guy with a long, 81-inch reach, and he used his jab very effectively to dictate tempo, maybe better than any heavyweight ever has. He wasn’t terribly popular during his career — he wasn’t Ali, basically — but history has been rightfully kind to him. Holmes was also not unbeatable, of course, but he didn’t start losing until 1985, when he was into his mid-30s.</p>
<aside id="3sBIYt"><div data-anthem-component="readmore" data-anthem-component-data='{"stories":[{"title":"On the cusp of Marciano’s record, Holmes is dethroned by Spinks","url":"https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/3/28/21197872/blh-classic-fight-series-on-cusp-marciano-record-larry-holmes-dethroned-michael-spinks-boxing"}]}'></div></aside><p id="4XN7PM">So what would this fight have looked like? Did Larry have the sort of style that would’ve given the brash and incredibly confident Ali fits, especially considering a prime Holmes had worked with a top form Ali and knew the tricks that Muhammad tried to pull on opponents to get them to make mistakes? Or was Ali simply too good, too skilled, and just a level about Holmes?</p>
<p id="XY3eKs">Your call!</p>
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https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/4/17/21224353/fantasy-boxing-matchup-muhammad-ali-vs-larry-holmes-both-prime-dream-match-heavyweight-fan-voteScott Christ2020-04-16T12:00:00-04:002020-04-16T12:00:00-04:00Fantasy Matchup: Lomachenko vs Marquez
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<p>Two highly skilled champions, each bringing something different to the table. Who wins between Loma and JMM?</p> <p id="aU9yFs">The fantasy boxing series rolls on with another matchup!</p>
<p id="eU3V7x">If you’ve missed any of these, <a href="https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/4/2/21204068/blh-fantasy-boxing-matchups-series-dream-fights">check out the hub page for the entire fantasy boxing series</a>.</p>
<h2 id="o6WYDx">Vasiliy Lomachenko vs Juan Manuel Marquez</h2>
<p id="uQOPdn">Just so there’s no confusion, here’s the layout: 130 pounds, 12 rounds. I know both of these guys fought (and very well) from 126 to 135, and Marquez went a good bit higher successfully. They’re both really natural featherweights, but Marquez might actually have been even better around 130-135 than he was at 126. So I decided to land in the middle at 130 for this one.</p>
<p id="rBPSnb">Lomachenko is currently considered by many to be the best pound-for-pound fighter in the sport. An all-time great amateur, the Ukrainian has translated those skills successfully to the pro game, though he got an eye-opener in his second pro bout in 2014, losing a split decision to rugged Mexican veteran Orlando Salido. He bounced back strongly from there, of course, beating Gary Russell Jr next time out to win the WBO featherweight title, and has pretty much dominated since.</p>
<p id="hzjElE">Marquez won the IBF featherweight title in 2003 (having lost a 1999 WBA challenge to Freddie Norwood), and his first of four bouts with Manny Pacquiao came at 126, a 2004 draw. He also lost to Chris John at featherweight in 2006, but he hit a big stride in 2007, beating Marco Antonio Barrera in what was Marquez’s 130-pound debut. He got another crack at Pacquiao in 2008, losing a controversial split decision.</p>
<p id="ppfAtG">Marquez then went up to 135, chasing a third fight with Pacquiao. He beat Joel Casamayor in a terrific fight in 2008, and Juan Diaz in what was widely considered the 2009 Fight of the Year. From there he bounced between 135 and 140/147, winning some fights, including a brutal KO of Pacquiao in 2012, losing a couple to top-tier guys, and then retired after a 2014 win over Mike Alvarado.</p>
<p id="5Ippzr">Lomachenko has moved up in weight not chasing anyone specific, the way Marquez did, but chasing big fights. He couldn’t get anyone to fight him at 126, so he went to 130 and immediately knocked out Rocky Martinez to win the WBO belt. He ran out of guys at 130, so he went up to 135 and took the WBA title from Jorge Linares, who is a hell of a fighter and gave a great effort in the bout before getting stopped in the 10th.</p>
<p id="XUBipF">Both of these guys are incredibly capable over three divisions, 126 to 135. So again, I think 130 fits nicely.</p>
<p id="9NhLkt">Lomachenko is a sort of magician in the ring, a real boxing genius. His foot work is constantly and rightly praised, but his head movement is otherworldly, too. Even if you manage to trap him a bit, or can get some shots off, he’s good at slipping blows. Offensively, he’s slick, fast, and puts punches together very well. He uses angles extremely effectively, and he’s a sharp puncher with plenty of power backing up all that technique.</p>
<p id="Uqr3qs">Marquez was another tremendously smart fighter, and one who changed and adapted in fights and over the years. He was chiefly a counter-puncher in his earlier days, didn’t buy into the stereotypical “Mexican style,” and as such had a harder time than contemporaries like Barrera or Erik Morales in becoming a star with Mexican fight fans. Over time, he got a bit more aggressive, a little more willing to lead the action, and he maintained his excellent counter-punching, too. As he went up in weight, he became more and more willing to take risks. It made for great fights, and made him a greater fighter.</p>
<p id="z8rYJt">We also know that Marquez was better than just about anyone at handling a dynamic southpaw with odd rhythms, great speed, power, and skills. From 126 to 147, Marquez was someone Manny Pacquiao, even at his very, very best, just could not overwhelm or dominate. Loma is not Pacquiao, of course, their styles are very different in spite of some general similarities, but maybe that indicates Marquez would have better answers for Lomachenko than most opponents do.</p>
<p id="iyp3Kp">Size-wise, there’s not a lot of difference. Both listed at 5’7”, Marquez would have an official reach advantage of an inch-and-a-half.</p>
<p id="PHyGLg">So who wins? Loma or JMM?</p>
<div id="QqidOB"><div data-anthem-component="poll:9211159"></div></div>
https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/4/16/21222856/fantasy-boxing-matchup-vasiliy-lomachenko-vs-juan-manuel-marquez-dream-fight-fan-vote-who-winsScott Christ2020-04-15T12:00:00-04:002020-04-15T12:00:00-04:00Fantasy Matchup: Shields vs Ali
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<p>Shields has made the challenge for today, but who would win between Claressa and the best version of Laila Ali?</p> <p id="EJQDon">Today’s fantasy boxing matchup is one that has kinda been brought up a lot recently by both fighters, but they’re talking about possibly doing it now, when one of them is long past their best years.</p>
<p id="99orPf">What if you could time travel them both on their best days to face one another? You can’t, but we’ll pretend you can!</p>
<p id="eU3V7x">If you’ve missed any of these, <a href="https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/4/2/21204068/blh-fantasy-boxing-matchups-series-dream-fights">check out the hub page for the entire fantasy boxing series</a>.</p>
<h2 id="Iizeib">Claressa Shields vs Laila Ali</h2>
<p id="TLaHFs">Claressa Shields is currently 25 years old. She’s won world titles in three weight classes, moving down from 168 to 160 and then to 154, and has dominated since turning pro in 2016. She had the privilege of coming into boxing when the Olympics finally allowed the women’s side of the sport on their stage, and she pretty easily won gold in both 2012 and 2016.</p>
<p id="k4smbl">Laila Ali in the real world is now 42 and hasn’t fought in 12 years. So Shields wanting to fight Laila is a little preposterous; this isn’t <em>Rocky Balboa</em>, Ali can’t go “build some hurtin’ bombs” and come out and go a hard 10 with the current queen, most likely.</p>
<p id="pNWOrp">But in her day, Laila was a big star for women’s boxing, as Claressa is now. In both cases, if we’re being entirely honest, the talent pool out there is pretty small; there’s a reason Shields keeps moving down in weight trying to find challenges. Once you’ve beaten a couple contenders in a weight class, you’re often done about all there is to really do.</p>
<p id="eVGlA8">Ali’s career existed in a time where women’s boxing was still treated largely as novelty, while Shields is part of a growing push for the women’s side of the sport to be taken more seriously by all fans, not just niche-within-the-niche fans.</p>
<p id="xhuyds">Both, at their best, can fight. Let’s say they’re at 168 pounds, in shape, on their best days.</p>
<p id="Z16I2L">Ali would have slight size advantages at 5’10” with a 70½” reach, compared to the 5’8” Shields and her 68” reach. Shields has quite probably had the better schooling, but Laila was a good fighter and definitely the bigger puncher of the two.</p>
<p id="Ar5g6f">So who wins it? And please, again, remember this is not, like, if they met in 2020.</p>
<div id="AElktj"><div data-anthem-component="poll:9210038"></div></div>
https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/4/15/21221621/fantasy-womens-boxing-matchup-claressa-shields-vs-laila-ali-dream-fight-voteScott Christ2020-04-14T12:00:00-04:002020-04-14T12:00:00-04:00Fantasy Matchup: De La Hoya vs Forrest
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<p>Two welterweights who could have met in the early 2000s, but never did.</p> <p id="EJQDon">Today’s fantasy boxing matchup isn’t one that crosses generations, but instead one that very easily might have happened in real life, except that it didn’t.</p>
<p id="eU3V7x">Let’s talk welterweights from the not too distant past, and if you’ve missed any of these, <a href="https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/4/2/21204068/blh-fantasy-boxing-matchups-series-dream-fights">check out the hub page for the entire fantasy boxing series</a>.</p>
<h2 id="v1buLm">Oscar De La Hoya vs Vernon Forrest</h2>
<p id="Camadf">When Oscar De La Hoya moved up to welterweight in 1997, he’d already won titles at 130, 135, and 140. His first fight at 147 was a famous <a href="https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/4/13/21218752/oscar-de-la-hoya-vs-pernell-whitaker-full-fight-video-dazn-boxing-analysis-scoring-controversy">one we just discussed, a challenge against top pound-for-pound talent Pernell “Sweet Pea” Whitaker, which De La Hoya won in controversial fashion</a>.</p>
<p id="XVwbeh">Oscar’s run at welterweight is slightly odd, because he was definitely a top fighter, but he also struggled in his biggest fights.</p>
<p id="cuPX5n">He beat Whitaker, David Kamau, Hector Camacho, Wilfredo Rivera, Patrick Charpentier, Julio Cesar Chavez, Ike Quartey, Oba Carr, Derell Coley, and Arturo Gatti. Those are good fighters, all of them. Chavez had gotten old and we already knew from a previous fight that he couldn’t deal with De La Hoya. Camacho was 35 and undersized at 147 against Oscar, and his best wins in years had come over faded stars Roberto Duran and Ray Leonard. Gatti was a beloved warrior, but he was always out of his depth against top guys. So those are good names on the record, but with asterisks.</p>
<p id="C8xwQ7">And in there you have very questionable wins over Whitaker and also Ike Quartey in 1999, the latter a split decision that went De La Hoya’s way, which was a hell of a fight. Quartey was a damn good fighter and proved a tough style matchup.</p>
<p id="t7Wfut">Oscar took two losses at 147, to Felix Trinidad in 1999 and Shane Mosley in 2000. These were also debatable fights. My personal believe is Mosley beat Oscar in a terrific fight, and that Oscar had a very good argument for a win over Trinidad, but he really has nobody to blame but himself as he laid off the gas and let that fight slip out of his grasp.</p>
<p id="tAYavX">(Oscar also lost at welterweight to Manny Pacquiao in 2008, but that was an obviously post-prime, part-time version of Oscar who really shouldn’t have been trying to fight at 147 anymore. I still think Oscar possibly could have had a few more decent outings at 154, but he got out at the right time, more likely than not.)</p>
<p id="P5R549">So Oscar went 11-2 at welterweight in the relevant years, with two wins controversial, but both losses debatable, too. He was one of boxing’s biggest stars in that time period.</p>
<p id="nX85oe">Then there’s Vernon Forrest.</p>
<p id="PNsgku">“The Viper” from Georgia had some solid wins and had won the IBF title against Raul Frank in 2001 when he was matched against a 38-0 Shane Mosley in 2002. Mosley had battered three straight opponents following his split decision win over De La Hoya in 2000, but Forrest proved to be all wrong for him, winning a clear decision and taking the WBC belt from “Sugar” Shane. To put it simply, Forrest kicked Mosley’s ass.</p>
<p id="TMVyRm">When they ran it back six months later, we got the same result. Mosley proved to be tailor made for Forrest, and it wasn’t all that shocking despite Forrest being the major betting underdog. Forrest had beaten Mosley during the trials for a spot on the 1992 Olympic team, too.</p>
<p id="oyDZsd">And then, just as Forrest was peaking, with talk that maybe he was the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world, he met his own kryptonite immediately in the form of Ricardo Mayorga, a crude slugger from Nicaragua who shocked the world with a third round TKO of the heavy favorite in Jan. 2003. When they rematched six months later, Mayorga pulled maybe an even bigger surprise by beating Forrest over 12 rounds. He didn’t catch him cold early that time, he just beat him. Forrest would go up to 154 pounds after that, as De La Hoya had after beating Gatti. Both won world titles again.</p>
<p id="PwrNcw">Forrest was an outstanding fighter at his best. At six feet tall, he was a huge welterweight with a 73-inch reach, but you could also argue that he was a wonderful example of styles making fights. He was kryptonite to Shane Mosley, who was a great fighter on a roll. And yet he couldn’t deal with the wild swinging of Mayorga, a fighter who made the most of his fearlessness and power with little boxing skill considering the level he was at.</p>
<p id="Jb2Ndc">De La Hoya wasn’t too much shorter than Forrest, at an official 5’10½”, and had the same 73-inch reach. He was a totally different matchup than Mosley, but he was also not a Mayorga. Physically, the closest matchup Oscar had at 147 was Trinidad.</p>
<p id="YWsWfW">By the time Vernon got to really make his mark against Mosley in ‘02, De La Hoya had moved up to 154. And when they were both at 154, Forrest was rebuilding after the Mayorga losses, while Oscar was becoming a part-time star attraction, chasing the biggest money. Forrest and De La Hoya just never crossed paths.</p>
<p id="OTTHqv">But say they did in 2000-2002 or so. Who would have won? Would De La Hoya’s skill set have proven too much for Forrest, or would Vernon have forced Oscar into those DEEP WATERS, and if he did, would De La Hoya have swam?</p>
<p id="LZadFZ">Try to consider no judging controversies, too, since that might pop into your head quickly.</p>
<p id="8dCYLk">Who wins?</p>
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https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/4/14/21220228/fantasy-boxing-matchup-oscar-de-la-hoya-vs-vernon-forrest-dream-fight-fan-voteScott Christ2020-04-13T12:00:00-04:002020-04-13T12:00:00-04:00Fantasy Matchup: Golovkin vs Toney
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<figcaption>Photos by Al Bello/Getty Images and Focus on Sport/Getty Images</figcaption>
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<p>GGG vs Lights Out at middleweight. Who wins?</p> <p id="a1GHBo"><a href="https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/4/2/21204068/blh-fantasy-boxing-matchups-series-dream-fights">Our fantasy boxing series</a> kicks off another Monday to Friday stretch (after this week, it might go to Monday/Wednesday/Friday or Tuesday/Thursday, but we’ll see) with a dream matchup in the middleweight division.</p>
<p id="nc6zD2">From Kazakhstan, it’s “GGG” himself, Gennadiy Golovkin, one of the most fearsome fighters of the modern years. And in the other corner, Grand Rapids, Michigan’s own James “Lights Out” Toney, who would later fight (and eat) his way up the ranks all the way to a half-decent run at heavyweight, but never lost in his time at 160 pounds.</p>
<h3 id="EsPnFi">Gennadiy Golovkin vs James Toney</h3>
<p id="9NFA2k">Gennadiy Golovkin has become one of the most popular fighters in the sport over his 14 years in the pro ranks, and it’s not as if that was guaranteed when he made his pro debut in Düsseldorf on May 6, 2006. GGG fought 17 of his first 18 pro fights in Germany (the other was in Denmark) before making a trip to Panama in 2010, where he wiped out Milton Nunez in 58 seconds to win the interim WBA middleweight title, after which he would be promoted to full “world” titleholder.</p>
<p id="l113is">Golovkin had a style and obvious skill level that kept a lot of top middleweights — chiefly Felix Sturm — from signing up to fight him. So he fought whomever he could, wherever they’d face him. Home in Kazakhstan, back in Panama, back in Germany, and then Ukraine before he made his way to the United States in Sept. 2012, where he headlined on HBO in a battering of Grzegorz Proksa.</p>
<p id="I5YoVJ">It wasn’t easy for GGG to fully break through. He did poor HBO numbers for that Proksa fight, but buzz and easier available clips and ways to promote him were now on hand. And the buzz built has he ripped through Gabe Rosado, Nobuhiro Ishida, Matthew Macklin, Curtis Stevens, Osumanu Adama, Daniel Geale, Marco Antonio Rubio, Martin Murray, Willie Monroe Jr, David Lemieux, Dominic Wade, and Kell Brook from 2013-16.</p>
<p id="9PVGsF">In 2017, his long streak of stoppage wins ended when he had to go a tough 12 to beat Daniel Jacobs, and then came two fights with Canelo Alvarez that also went the distance, resulting in controversial results in a draw and Canelo victory in 2017 and 2018. Last time we saw GGG, he was going another tough 12, getting a close win over Sergiy Derevyanchenko.</p>
<p id="3At22o">James Toney turned pro in 1988 in Mount Clemens, Michigan. While it’s true he didn’t lose as a middleweight, he also didn’t dominate all the time. After starting 20-0 (15 KO), he went to a 10-round draw with journeyman Sanderline Williams in 1990, rematching and beating Williams soundly over 10 rounds three months later.</p>
<p id="jcfFZ4">The 1991 split decision win over Merqui Sosa was a clear Toney victory that one judge just flat got wrong, and it’s worth noting that when Toney got his first title shot in 1991 against unbeaten IBF titleholder Michael Nunn, James was losing clearly on all three cards after 10 rounds before stopping Nunn in the 11th. Nunn was a damn good fighter, mind you, who would go on to win another title at 168 and challenge for one at 175.</p>
<p id="5I9CD0">His first defense was a little rocky, too, as Reggie Johnson gave him real problems in a split decision win for Toney. James then went to a draw with Mike McCallum in Dec. 1991 and won a very controversial decision over Dave Tiberi in 1992. His final fight at 160 came two months later, a clear win over Glenn Wolfe.</p>
<p id="tvNvqn">So Toney wasn’t spotless at 160, he wasn’t mega dominant, and he had trouble with the better fighters he faced, as well as Tiberi, who was not special but — in my view and that of many — was robbed of a major upset.</p>
<p id="cR4dsO">GGG’s record may look great in comparison. His only loss was controversial, his only draw controversial. But Golovkin has hardly blown away his three best opponents, either, in Canelo, Jacobs, or Derevyanchenko. He certainly didn’t run those guys over the way he’d done others.</p>
<p id="bJQve8">What makes this fight most intriguing to me is the style matchup, which is usually the case when I think of fantasy matchups, especially the way we’re doing them here, which isn’t just “which of the top two guys ever would win this fight?” We’re looking at different sorts of matchups than just “Elite A vs Elite B.”</p>
<p id="jEQWZd">Toney had a very old school style even for the time. Offensively, he worked off a strong jab, and was terrific fighting inside and on the counter. Defensively, he was excellent at catching and rolling with shots and using that shell defense to set up his counters.</p>
<p id="1hemqS">Golovkin had a good amateur background and has mixed a European style with his much-touted and beloved “Mexican Style.” He’s got crunching power and fights well applying pressure, but Toney was <em>never</em> stopped — not at 160, 168, 175, cruiserweight, or heavyweight, and it’s not like he didn’t face some guys who could bang or try to get him out. GGG’s defense often goes overlooked, but he’s actually a pretty good defensive fighter. Different approaches, yes, but he and Toney are/were both hard to hit clean.</p>
<p id="HSSgbX">So who wins? GGG or Lights Out?</p>
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https://www.badlefthook.com/2020/4/13/21218720/fantasy-boxing-matchup-gennadiy-golovkin-vs-james-toney-dream-fight-fan-vote-who-winsScott Christ